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Using Valium 4 Suboxone withdrawal (worried about Valium addiction) need advice.
Thanks for taking the time to read this. I have been off of Suboxone for 7 weeks now. After 2 1/2 years I began to taper. I went from 12 mg to 2 mg in 4 months without any discomfort. (I actually felt better with a smaller dose) After 4 months of tapering an opportunity arose that required me to be clean from Suboxone within a month. I don't want to sound discouraging but it was and still is HELL! If I had the time I would have taken another 6 months to taper to alleviate this horrible experience, but I did not have that luxury. Even though I still feel so bad I am grateful that I have stopped taking it. I really like my doctor, but when I asked him for all the arsenals he could offer to help me get through this he seemed perplexed. I was prescribed promethazine pills (without the codeine) for my stomach cramps. Didn't help at all. He also gave me Baclofen for the restless leg/muscle symptoms. Didn't help at all. He gave me one more medication for my intense anxiety which was the most important to me. Since I had an opiate addiction in the past he avoided giving me a benzo for my anxiety. He gave me Hydroxyzine. It did not work for me at all. It completely zapped what little energy I had left. I felt paralyzed in bed left with nothing, but my irrational and destructive thoughts. What a horrible drug that is. I decided to go to my parents house in another county because I currently live in a single room occupancy hotel which I dislike tremendously. I desperately needed some type of social interaction to distract my mind. After a few days of being at home my parents came to me expressing their concern for my health. My symptoms appeared so intense they were concerned something bad would manifest. They suggested I see a different doctor in their county so I got online and actually found a doctor that treats Suboxone withdrawal. He prescribed me Clonodine, Trazadone, and Valium. After taking these medications my symptoms dropped by about 75 percent!!!! My suicidal aviations stopped. I was able to concentrate enough to watch TV which certainly helped the time go by quicker. I was able to relax and sleep which enabled my body to heal. It also helped prevent relapse. I was soooo grateful to be out of the agonizing state I was in. l have been on about 40 mg a day. My comfortable dose is 60 mg a day which I know is a lot, but thats what made me comfortable without feeling high. I realized that if I took that dose I would run out too soon as well as subjecting myself to abuse and addiction so I tried to keep it to 40 mg. sometimes taking more. I have been taking Valium for 6 weeks now and am afraid of getting addicted. I certainly don't want to trade one addiction for another. I feel like I still need the Valium for another month, but fear the addiction aspect. I fear I could be on the fence with a valium addiction right now due to what I have read with other peoples experiences online. I recently started my treatment for Hep C which requires me to take allot of medications among them being Ribavirin which causes anxiety, rage, and anger. I will be taking this for another 2 months and would like to continue the valium until I finish the treatment, but again I am concerned about getting addicted if I'm not already. If anyone can offer some insight into weather I should start tapering the valium now or continue for another month or two? Oh yeah...Once I get my energy back from this wretched Suboxone withdrawal I plan to be diligent about my recovery with meditation, CBT, yoga, NA, nutrition, etc. Long road ahead.....I know. Thanks in advance for any support/advice that may come my way. Thank you soooo much.
Well, no one certainly wanted to freak you out, everyone is just being realistic. 6 weeks of taking Valium regularly would most likely entail some kind of dependency. The situation will vary for each person. The one thing I would say for sure is that you've been taking it long enough to just stop taking it abruptly.
"I know valium has ruined lives of people on this site, but I have to believe that it is an excellent drug for a SEVERE crisis situation like my own. I am grateful that it was there for my body to relax and heal through my Suboxone withdrawal. "
And, you may be right, it's good that you posted the question though, or else you may have been here in another 6 weeks, wondering what to do, you know? It's great that you've come to realize that it's time to get off the Valium, as using it for much longer puts you on an even more slippery slope.
Definitely get some help with the anxiety! Hang in there!
"I know valium has ruined lives of people on this site, but I have to believe that it is an excellent drug for a SEVERE crisis situation like my own. I am grateful that it was there for my body to relax and heal through my Suboxone withdrawal. "
And, you may be right, it's good that you posted the question though, or else you may have been here in another 6 weeks, wondering what to do, you know? It's great that you've come to realize that it's time to get off the Valium, as using it for much longer puts you on an even more slippery slope.
Definitely get some help with the anxiety! Hang in there!
Thanks for all the support. I dropped to 4 mg without any repercussions. I would like to just stop now, but I will continue to taper as suggested by everyone. I must admit that I was a little freaked out by all of the replies. Except for vicki whom said...."You may be dependent right now. We don't know." Everyone else responded as if I was already addicted. Arrrrg! Since I recently stopped for two days without any repercussions I think it's safe to stop now, but again I will continue to taper a bit more.
I know valium has ruined lives of people on this site, but I have to believe that it is an excellent drug for a SEVERE crisis situation like my own. I am grateful that it was there for my body to relax and heal through my Suboxone withdrawal. I reckon the key is to use it for a short time at the smallest dose that works for you. Thanks again for all the support and best of luck to all that is reading this.
Peace
I know valium has ruined lives of people on this site, but I have to believe that it is an excellent drug for a SEVERE crisis situation like my own. I am grateful that it was there for my body to relax and heal through my Suboxone withdrawal. I reckon the key is to use it for a short time at the smallest dose that works for you. Thanks again for all the support and best of luck to all that is reading this.
Peace
Hi there...just read through this thread...whew. A lot going on here...lots of good advice above.
I took a few small doses of Valium during the heighht of suboxone and percocet withdraws. Stopped ASAP as I knew I was playing with fire. Instead, I opted for more natural remedies to help me relax thought the day and get some sleep at night. I can't remember all of the names, but I remember I used luminite for sleep, or melatonin. I went to gnc or wholemfoods a few times and picked up some 'nerve tonic' type formulas that weremsafemto take during the day.
They were effective. Not a cure-all, but effective and it made me feel good to know I was helping myself without addictive chemicals.
Being that you are taking SSI's and other medications it would be wise to talk to your MD about possible interactions prior to trying any of the above. You can do it. You are worth it.
Sry, don't know tell-tale signs of benzo wd. Take it easy please.
I took a few small doses of Valium during the heighht of suboxone and percocet withdraws. Stopped ASAP as I knew I was playing with fire. Instead, I opted for more natural remedies to help me relax thought the day and get some sleep at night. I can't remember all of the names, but I remember I used luminite for sleep, or melatonin. I went to gnc or wholemfoods a few times and picked up some 'nerve tonic' type formulas that weremsafemto take during the day.
They were effective. Not a cure-all, but effective and it made me feel good to know I was helping myself without addictive chemicals.
Being that you are taking SSI's and other medications it would be wise to talk to your MD about possible interactions prior to trying any of the above. You can do it. You are worth it.
Sry, don't know tell-tale signs of benzo wd. Take it easy please.
Well, it sounds like you're moving forward which is good. I don't doubt for a second that the Valium helped a lot, as Sub w/d can be a bear, it was more the concern of wanting to continue taking it. I know you don't feel 100% of course, but at what point do you say, "It's time". As an addict, that will never come.
Honestly, while I'm glad you found a doc to help you through the Sub w/ds, even choosing to put you on the Valium in the first place may not have been optimal. It's hard to weigh benefits and risks.
What's important is that now you know what you're going to do to move forward. As for tapering, don't do it alone, ask your doctor for help. It's much safer that way. Of course, it will be normal to experience rebound anxiety to an extent, depending on how fast your doc wants you to taper. Keep using your anxiety coping techniques, because you may feel worse before you feel better. With a proper taper, you shouldn't FEEL severe w/d symptoms from the Valium like you would the Sub. The biggest issue probably will be anxiety, restlessness, insomnia, possible headaches.
Hang in there....keep on posting, you've found the right place!
Honestly, while I'm glad you found a doc to help you through the Sub w/ds, even choosing to put you on the Valium in the first place may not have been optimal. It's hard to weigh benefits and risks.
What's important is that now you know what you're going to do to move forward. As for tapering, don't do it alone, ask your doctor for help. It's much safer that way. Of course, it will be normal to experience rebound anxiety to an extent, depending on how fast your doc wants you to taper. Keep using your anxiety coping techniques, because you may feel worse before you feel better. With a proper taper, you shouldn't FEEL severe w/d symptoms from the Valium like you would the Sub. The biggest issue probably will be anxiety, restlessness, insomnia, possible headaches.
Hang in there....keep on posting, you've found the right place!
Thanks for all the advice and concern. I totally recognize that I am in relapse mode. Which is why I am doing everything I can to work out a good recovery plan holistically. I would have loved to skip the Valium, but my anxiety was so bad that it was manifesting into an explosion in my body. I developed infections on my fingers and leg of which I had to take antibiotics. My sciatica hit me hard. My upper thigh developed a walnut sized bulge that scared the hell out of me. I went to the emergency and waited for 6 hours. They ordered an ultra-sound, but I couldn't stay any longer because I was having panic attacks. I still don't know what it is. I could go on, but I think you get the picture. The valium allowed my body/mind to heal immediately. I think it can be an effective drug if taken for a short while.
I have been on 20 mg for two weeks and for the last two days I have dropped it to 10 mg a day. So far I have noticed nothing different from my existing Suboxone withdrawals. Am I tapering to fast and again does anyone know any tell tale signs of a Valium withdrawal that are different or unique to my Suboxone withdrawal. Also it seemed like a few comments were from people that didn't read any of my follow up replies, but perhaps I'm wrong.
As far as over thinking everything I couldn't agree more, but thats what I do. Especially in a withdrawal headspace. I've met no one that doesn't over think during a withdrawal. I try to calm my mind with as much meditation, yoga, and exercise I can do at this point. To the people that are worried I am in relapse mode I want to say I fully recognize it which is one of the reasons I am on here. I am extremely worried as well. To the person that said I should give the meetings more of a chance. I fully believe in AA/NA. Years back I did 120 meetings in 90 days. had two sponsors, etc. I plan get right back into it as soon as my body will allow it.
Peace and love and thanks again for all the support. I certainly need all I can get. Peace and love.
I have been on 20 mg for two weeks and for the last two days I have dropped it to 10 mg a day. So far I have noticed nothing different from my existing Suboxone withdrawals. Am I tapering to fast and again does anyone know any tell tale signs of a Valium withdrawal that are different or unique to my Suboxone withdrawal. Also it seemed like a few comments were from people that didn't read any of my follow up replies, but perhaps I'm wrong.
As far as over thinking everything I couldn't agree more, but thats what I do. Especially in a withdrawal headspace. I've met no one that doesn't over think during a withdrawal. I try to calm my mind with as much meditation, yoga, and exercise I can do at this point. To the people that are worried I am in relapse mode I want to say I fully recognize it which is one of the reasons I am on here. I am extremely worried as well. To the person that said I should give the meetings more of a chance. I fully believe in AA/NA. Years back I did 120 meetings in 90 days. had two sponsors, etc. I plan get right back into it as soon as my body will allow it.
Peace and love and thanks again for all the support. I certainly need all I can get. Peace and love.
Hello!
I VERY much agree with vicki's post above. I too am seeing many red flags in your posts...repeated seeking of "permission" to continue the Valium. That's your addict brain talking, You already KNOW the answer to that. You also probably already know you've taken the Valium probably a good bit longer than you NEEDED to already, AND you've been taking a dose that was probably a decent amount higher than what you would have needed to be more comfortable.
The goal for treating w/ds should always be managing the symptoms, making them more tolerable. It's not a realistic goal to try to eliminate w/d symptoms. You would have been MUCH better off skipping the Valium entirely, but in the least, taking a much lower dose, for a very short period of time. Then you wouldn't have been facing dependency and w/d. After 6 weeks of taking it every day, you most certainly need to taper off. Ask your doctor for a proper taper plan. Like Vicki said, a slow and steady taper is a must for benzo discontinuation. You won't have to worry about the seizure risk if you're doing a proper taper. Like vicki also said, you're already stuck in the trap of over thinking everything. You need to work on that.
IMO, you're on a slippery slope here and exhibiting lots of signs of the thought process of active addiction. You need to do whatever you can to start addressing that. You said you don't really like meetings, but have you given them a try this go around? It's recommended to try one meeting at least 5-6 times before making a judgement. You NEED to be around fellow addicts, you need more accountability, you need support. And you need to tell this new doctor what's going on with the Valium. He needs to know that in the future, anything addictive has to be off the table for you. You can always find reasons (ie excuses) why you can't or don't want to do something...why not try to find reasons why you CAN?
This happens a lot, people trade one addiction for another. You're 6 weeks in, so you CAN nip this in the bud before it gets even worse. You keep asking repeatedly if if would be okay to keep taking the Valium...and the simple answer (which I think you already fully know) is NO. You're already exhibiting addictive tendencies with it (worrying about taking it, wanting to take it longer, self medicating, etc).
You can do this. You have to decide how much work you're willing to put in, that is what will get you better and KEEP you sober.
Best of luck to you!
I VERY much agree with vicki's post above. I too am seeing many red flags in your posts...repeated seeking of "permission" to continue the Valium. That's your addict brain talking, You already KNOW the answer to that. You also probably already know you've taken the Valium probably a good bit longer than you NEEDED to already, AND you've been taking a dose that was probably a decent amount higher than what you would have needed to be more comfortable.
The goal for treating w/ds should always be managing the symptoms, making them more tolerable. It's not a realistic goal to try to eliminate w/d symptoms. You would have been MUCH better off skipping the Valium entirely, but in the least, taking a much lower dose, for a very short period of time. Then you wouldn't have been facing dependency and w/d. After 6 weeks of taking it every day, you most certainly need to taper off. Ask your doctor for a proper taper plan. Like Vicki said, a slow and steady taper is a must for benzo discontinuation. You won't have to worry about the seizure risk if you're doing a proper taper. Like vicki also said, you're already stuck in the trap of over thinking everything. You need to work on that.
IMO, you're on a slippery slope here and exhibiting lots of signs of the thought process of active addiction. You need to do whatever you can to start addressing that. You said you don't really like meetings, but have you given them a try this go around? It's recommended to try one meeting at least 5-6 times before making a judgement. You NEED to be around fellow addicts, you need more accountability, you need support. And you need to tell this new doctor what's going on with the Valium. He needs to know that in the future, anything addictive has to be off the table for you. You can always find reasons (ie excuses) why you can't or don't want to do something...why not try to find reasons why you CAN?
This happens a lot, people trade one addiction for another. You're 6 weeks in, so you CAN nip this in the bud before it gets even worse. You keep asking repeatedly if if would be okay to keep taking the Valium...and the simple answer (which I think you already fully know) is NO. You're already exhibiting addictive tendencies with it (worrying about taking it, wanting to take it longer, self medicating, etc).
You can do this. You have to decide how much work you're willing to put in, that is what will get you better and KEEP you sober.
Best of luck to you!
When I read that you're already thinking about ways to cover up a relapse it just gives me pause...
That's just not what we're all about here and although I can appreciate your honesty, I realize you have a very long road ahead of you. I also think you're looking for permission to continue your use of Valium.
Let me tell you something, as many excuses or reasons you think you have to use anything...there's not a member here who can't double or triple it!
The point is always to get away from using pills...if that's your goal. That's our goal here and were happy to help you when you're ready.
That's just not what we're all about here and although I can appreciate your honesty, I realize you have a very long road ahead of you. I also think you're looking for permission to continue your use of Valium.
Let me tell you something, as many excuses or reasons you think you have to use anything...there's not a member here who can't double or triple it!
The point is always to get away from using pills...if that's your goal. That's our goal here and were happy to help you when you're ready.
Hi and Welcome. I was on a 12year Methadone ride and started to buy adderral to snort it with. I took a Benzo at night to come down. Almost 11m ago I went c/t from all 3, I got myself down to 30mg on the Dones..Now I did not know how serious it was to c/t a benzo..Daaaa! Well for may Months now I have been studying the Map of the Brain and what Transmitters and Receptors are affected by each drug. Now Methadone, Subs and Trams are the most synthetic one that a lot of people have used..This means that they do not like to let go and they take longer to detox out. NOW what I experienced coming off of these 3 meds was a whole other ball game then just like the other opiates alone. I have found out from the Pharmacies and Drs that my Anxiety that was on the moon for months was mostly due to the Benzo. And also the reason it just lingered one for months. 3 drugs hitting different area of the brain and it really messes up the nervous system.
Well I was too stubborn to take any addicting meds so I suffered for a while. Finally I broke down and got the Clonidine for only about a month and I took it at night only so I would not feel so zoned out during the day. I would not take any Trazadone or any of the meds like that because it seemed to intensive my w/ds more. Well I did get some Buspar (Buspirone) NOT, NO it was NOT Wellbutrin (Bupropion) some people get these confused. The Buspar is a non-addictive anxiety med that a lot of Drs use to help with w/ds.
So if you can get a Dr to help you with a nice and slow taper, then maybe at the end of the benzo taper you can try the Buspar for a while.
I wish you the best and make sure you get Support as well. This Journey into our Recovery was not meant to be walked alone.
Bless
Well I was too stubborn to take any addicting meds so I suffered for a while. Finally I broke down and got the Clonidine for only about a month and I took it at night only so I would not feel so zoned out during the day. I would not take any Trazadone or any of the meds like that because it seemed to intensive my w/ds more. Well I did get some Buspar (Buspirone) NOT, NO it was NOT Wellbutrin (Bupropion) some people get these confused. The Buspar is a non-addictive anxiety med that a lot of Drs use to help with w/ds.
So if you can get a Dr to help you with a nice and slow taper, then maybe at the end of the benzo taper you can try the Buspar for a while.
I wish you the best and make sure you get Support as well. This Journey into our Recovery was not meant to be walked alone.
Bless
Yes, Makes sense. Of course I was hoping for feed back implying another month of use would be acceptable. Oh well. I have been dosing allot less in the last two weeks. About 20 mg a day. I recently stopped for two days without problems, but its hard to judge because I'm still experiencing the Suboxone withdrawal symptoms.With that said... I was wondering if there are any withdrawal symptoms that are unique to valium so I can differentiate between the both. I'm asking this to get an idea if i'm addicted or not. Perhaps if it appears that I'm not then I may taper a bit faster. Would you agree? Will I have warning signs/symptoms before a seizure happens...hypothetically. Also if the taper goes without any problems would doing 10 mg once or maybe twice a week be acceptable until my treatment is over (2 months) My depression/anxiety can get really bad. Not to sound like a victim and I am not proud of this, but I recently started to receive SSI for my depression and anxiety so things are not so good for me right now. I've been through the whole family of antidepressants and none seemed to have an effect except a few side effects. After researching them there seem to be not much data supporting their effectiveness. I believe exercise is much more effective, but hard to do when depressed. I got a dog and that was more effective than any medication as well. That's just me though. Ive seen antidepressants work wonders on some people I know. Unfortunately Benzo's seem very effective for me, but they are not an option of course due to the addictive aspects. Again I ask would it be acceptable to take 10 mg only on days where my thoughts get double plus bad and to be sure not to exceed 20 mg a week? This would only be for another two months.
I get a urine test about once every two months so if I were to relapse I would use an opiate because it leaves the system much quicker than Suboxone. I hate knowing that I can cheat/relapse while doing my hep C treatment. The Suboxone withdrawal lasts so long and the torment compounds without a break so taking a break by relapsing can get tempting. I am definitely not interested in getting high or getting back into an opiate addiction.
I forgot to mention that I definitely noticed an increase in anxiety when I started taking the ribavirin, but again its hard to tell if there is a direct correlation due to this lengthy bloody Suboxone detox. Fortunately, they think it would be ok if my Ribavirin dose was lowered to 80 mg after I test negative which I probably am already. My viral load dropped from 13 million to 22 thousand after only three days of treatment. Yee Haw! So grateful!! Ok starting to babble. My cognitive abilities are astoundingly bad right now. So to sum up....A few more questions. 1. Are there any unique withdrawal symptoms that would be different from my Suboxone withdrawal. 2. Would it be acceptable to take one maybe two a week on my really bad days? Oh Godess I'm starting to babble again. Thank you so much for taking the time to respond. I REALLY appreciate it.
I get a urine test about once every two months so if I were to relapse I would use an opiate because it leaves the system much quicker than Suboxone. I hate knowing that I can cheat/relapse while doing my hep C treatment. The Suboxone withdrawal lasts so long and the torment compounds without a break so taking a break by relapsing can get tempting. I am definitely not interested in getting high or getting back into an opiate addiction.
I forgot to mention that I definitely noticed an increase in anxiety when I started taking the ribavirin, but again its hard to tell if there is a direct correlation due to this lengthy bloody Suboxone detox. Fortunately, they think it would be ok if my Ribavirin dose was lowered to 80 mg after I test negative which I probably am already. My viral load dropped from 13 million to 22 thousand after only three days of treatment. Yee Haw! So grateful!! Ok starting to babble. My cognitive abilities are astoundingly bad right now. So to sum up....A few more questions. 1. Are there any unique withdrawal symptoms that would be different from my Suboxone withdrawal. 2. Would it be acceptable to take one maybe two a week on my really bad days? Oh Godess I'm starting to babble again. Thank you so much for taking the time to respond. I REALLY appreciate it.
Okay. It's not that complicated but we always tend to over think this stuff...
Benzos are tough to get away from. The wd's can be protracted and very unpleasant. Cold turkey wd's can lead to seizures...The way around this for YOU is to begin tapering NOW.
When I say taper, it doesn't mean to cut out 20mg today! We aren't supposed to give tapering plans on the forum but I can tell you that a taper must be slow and steady, dropping a teeny, tiny bit at a time.
It's doable...just start cutting back...and you'll still have the support from it that you're needing. Make sense? We'll be here for support, as well!
Benzos are tough to get away from. The wd's can be protracted and very unpleasant. Cold turkey wd's can lead to seizures...The way around this for YOU is to begin tapering NOW.
When I say taper, it doesn't mean to cut out 20mg today! We aren't supposed to give tapering plans on the forum but I can tell you that a taper must be slow and steady, dropping a teeny, tiny bit at a time.
It's doable...just start cutting back...and you'll still have the support from it that you're needing. Make sense? We'll be here for support, as well!
Vicki595 I agree big time that you have to force yourself to exercise. I am trying to be as active as possible. I do sun salutations once to twice a day. I live on the fifth floor and always take the stairs which is challenging. I try to do 20 push-ups a day. I take my dog to the park every day. I try to meditate, but at this point it is difficult. I've gone to a couple of meetings, but I can't deal with them in a social way right now. I will be starting one on one CBT therapy with emphasis on my depression and anxiety In about 3 weeks and I'm about to start an out patient program for addiction that includes individual and group therapy as well as meditation and yoga. During the beginning of my withdrawal my back went out (sciatica) so I stopped doing a daily sprint which I was doing for a while. I also stopped riding my bike because those activities were exasperating my sciatica. I am currently doing exercises to stretch and strengthen my back for sciatica. If I am already addicted I am assuming that if I start tapering now the withdrawals will be less severe or am I wrong? Valium withdrawals seem to be unique from other drugs. I am not experienced with Benzo's. Really would feel better if I could continue the Valium for another month or two because it really helps me right now, but it seems counter productive to trade one addiction for another. My ultimate goal is to be pill free within 6 months to a year. I feel so utterly confused about EVERYTHING! Arrrrg!
Hi there- Well you've been through a lot and thankfully you found a doctor who could make the wd's a little more tolerable. There's no doubt the Valium will turn on you and you may be dependent right now...we don't know.
I would say you should begin a taper BUT there's the HepC treatment...Not everyone experiences rage and anxiety, though, so why don't you wait and see how that goes? In the meantime you can slowly taper your dose.
There are many ways to calm anxiety and you really could begin some yoga and meditation now. Remember, if you don't get moving, you'll be fatigued forever. You have to push a little bit here, it's time. What kind of exercise are you getting?
I would say you should begin a taper BUT there's the HepC treatment...Not everyone experiences rage and anxiety, though, so why don't you wait and see how that goes? In the meantime you can slowly taper your dose.
There are many ways to calm anxiety and you really could begin some yoga and meditation now. Remember, if you don't get moving, you'll be fatigued forever. You have to push a little bit here, it's time. What kind of exercise are you getting?
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