terrified

[lovepat906]

My son is currently 150 days off methadone and 25 days completely off suboxone after a long term addiction to pain pills. He seems to be doing very well- and is on a very positive path. BUT! He went to the dentist and next Wed. he is gonna have two wisdom teeth pulled. I go to the same dentist and when I recently had a root canal he gave me a scrip for 30 10mg loratabs- with a refill! I didn't take even one but I am terrified that this dentist is going to liberally prescribe pain pills to my son. My husband over heard my son telling his wife that if the dentist gave him pain pills, she would have to hold them and dole them out. That sounds like a good plan but I am worried that- even if he takes them as perscribed- he will trigger his cravings and/or get easily addicted again. So. my questions are: what should I do? How many pills would get him addicted again? Am I right to be worried about this? Is there another pain med that I can suggest he request that is not an opiate? Should I call the dentist? What to do, what to do...

[feelingcrazierbytheday]

awesome. happy endings are always so uplifting...glad it worked out.

[lovepat906]

Here's a positive update! The extraction was a fiasco- what could go wrong- went wrong. I won't go into the gory details but he needed to take the lotab 10s. His new wife doled them out- every four hours to start/ then every 6, every 8, every12, and once a day. He had the last one two days ago and is now taking just Ibuprophen. No cravings. No WDs. He told her to flush the rest!  He says that he is determined to never go "there" again. He has now been free of methadone since the 30th of March and has been off Sub for 35 days! I will keep on praying! lovepat

[wait2long]

arent all ya-ya's on the same wavelength?  lol!  yes, flare up is better, but my stomach is in knots from  the prednisone...UGH!  I hate the ****, but it works by day 2 every time, so far so good...its good that you can be upfront and honest with him, you have a great relationship with Josh...
is he a smoker pat?  because thats how i did myself in when i had mine out...i thought it was the smoke itself that was bad...but no, its the sucking motion that causes dry socket, which is when the soft scab that forms over the empty socket (that is there to protect the empty socket) lets loose and leaves the hole vulnerable to all types of infection and bacteria...
its a ****** procedure all around...i feel for him...
keep me posted hun..

[lovepat906]

HEY GOOD LOOKIN"!
Looks like we are on the same wave length with this. He absolutely forbade me  to contact his dentist- so that's out. I have tried to be always up front and honest with him. His wife wants him to forgo the PKs too. He was pretty argumentative about it- as is usual for him. But then, usually he thinks about it and comes around. And so it goes!
Been thinking of you- hope you are feeling better.

[lovepat906]

I printed out the advice on this thread and shared it with my son and his wife this evening. He is really afraid of the possibility of great pain as many of his friends have told him horror stories.The dentist is actually gonna take out three- 2 emerged and one just beginning to emerge. He is convinced that he will need PKs. His plan is to give the meds to his wife and she will give them to him as prescribed for no more than three days.I recommended that he at least try the Motrin/ oragel first to see if it relieves the pain instead of jumping right on the PKs. I am still hoping that the dentist will give him something else- maybe he gave me such a heavy duty scrip cause I am just an old lady who doesn't fit his addict profile ( I know from here that is so not true). In the mean time , we still have plenty of Suboxone here and my son did have the self discipline to taper off of that. If we see that he is becoming dependent we could put him on a very short term sub taper. In the meantime I am praying that his procedure will be as painless as mine was... He SAYS that he will not go back out because he never wants to go through WDs again. He surprised me by kicking Methadone and Suboxone so maybe this will be a positive experience as well.
His dad and I have decided that we need to let him take on this responsibility. We've given him our best honest advice, but HE owns this.

[wait2long]

hey sis,
let me share a few things that will make it easier for him when he does have the teeth out...
first off, VERY IMPORTANT!!  if he is a smoker..NO SMOKING!  the sucking action you do while smoking will and can cause dry socket, which IS the absolute worst.  no drinking from straws, no sucking action at all... apply the hot or cool packs exactly as dentist says...if he does all of this correctly, he SHOULD be ok with mild discomfort..and 800 mgs of advil should be fine..at this point in his recovery, i wouldnt chance him taking any opiates...unless he ends up with dry socket which is so painful and might not be avoidable at this point.  its a scary situation, but he could easily go back to the sub if necessary for a few days also...just another option to think about if he does have difficulties...i so hope not, hes done so incredible with his recovery...i just wouldnt chance it...and i would talk to the dentist so the amount of pills they do give him is limited...and maybe having you hang on to them would be better, not so readily accessible...?
i'll email you later.
love ya-ya sis!
  i had all 4 out at once and had dry socket in all 4, and then turned into infection...

[Soon2BMrsTurner]

i cant really say, I can remember when I had mine out and I would have never made it had I not taken the Percocet. The pain was unreal and I got dry socket, Mine were so bad the oral sergeon put me in the hospital to take them out . I understand that you are worried but you cant let him be in pain either and there is nothing worse than wisdom teeth they are rough. Good luck but I would not tell his dentist it just opens a whole new bag of problems. But thats just me

[Coolio Hernendez]

1 is to many and 1000 is not enough.......It took 1 and i was back......I wish someone had warned my doctor...

[LateAugust]

Red   great comments,  you have helped many by sharing your experience and the recommendations of alternatives to opiate pain management.    Honestly lovepat,  I have never heard of a dentist prescribing such heavy doses of meds  for relatively simple procedures.    I didn't  even realize a dentist had the certification to prescribe loratabs! so that is how naive I am!!   I have had several root canals due to a very high fever as a baby that damaged the nerves in my mouth  and I have been offered coidene at best!  And that is by an oral surgeon!!  I have been with all 3 of my children having their wisdom teeth either pulled  or embedded and cut out of their mouth   and not one of them needed any pain meds stronger than ibprofen...  with a lot of soft food and sleeping.  Yes the oral surgeon gave me the scrip for drugs if they needed it, they just didn't.......   I think that is the difference of having procedures  pre and post addiction.  As a non addict,  it never crosses my mind of what pain med I will be prescribed prior to a procedure.    Times have changed, and having a 21 yr old full blown addict, I can guarantee you, if she thought she could get oxy  or any other opiate legit  she would in a New York minute......and she is recently out of re-hab,  but still is not strong enough to walk away if an oxy was available to her,  especially if it was condoned by a dentist...

I agree with you  not to go behind your son's back,  but I have to say I would be checking out this dentist  that obviously hands out extremely strong drugs  for fairly routine dental treatment.  And quite honestly having wisdom teeth pulled  is no different than having a tooth pulled,  which normally  dentists don't pull out a scrip pad for a tooth pulled.

I am sorry your son is having temptations due to a (in my opinion) a script happy writing dentist, for a very simple procedure.     I hope your son's pain is truly minimal  and he can continue on his path to recovery.

[wait2long]

I'll get back to you tonight hun...i emailed you...

[SHELLBELL79]

Oh well if his teeth are already coming out, oh he will be fine! He won't need any narcotic painkillers. He just might be hypersensitive to pain since he's fresh of the medication. Don't tell him about him being hypersensitive to pain b/c he will have in his head that he will be in more pain. Im sure he will be fine w/o the pain med.

[lovepat906]

My thanks for all your input! I agree with everything except the going to the dentist behind his back... I got burned for that before and it only made the situation worse. I am gonna have a long conversation with him and his new wife and lay all your wisdom and suggestions out to them. I am hoping that he will be convinced to try the Motrin, Naproxen, oragel - instead of any opiates. I am also hoping that he tells the dentist so that he can avoid this temptation in the future. I know that one drink, one cigarette, can be re-addicting. So I really believe that he should avoid even one PK. The teeth are already emerged so they just have to do an extraction- not full blown oral surgery. He might be able to do without altogether- but just having the pills there is a terrible temptation. Yes , Redbluffer- you sound VERY much like my son- he just turned 29 and your paths have been very similar. I am gonna print out your recommendation- maybe it will mean more from someone who has been there done that... Thank you so much.

[Redbluffer]

I keep doing that, anyways good luck with everything and if I can help in any other way please let me know. You can send me a message or I'll try to follow your posts, but I really think it could be handled with some oragel and aleve, if I can help with anything please send me a message or I'll try to follow your posts...Good luck and God bless!!!

[Redbluffer]

Woops I hit the post button on accident. Like ochooked said 800mg motrin could be helpful, some prescription strength naproxen could also help. Another medication would be like oragel, or the generic versions that numb your mouth that would work extremely well. I have a friend who was born without enamel on his teeth and hasnt seen a dentist in over15years and 90% of his teeth are turning black and he has severe pain in his mouth and he uses tubes of the oragel type stuff. He really shouldnt take any opiates for his wisdom teeth, I know most people do, but in that situation it just isnt worth it. I really think you could go buy a bunch of the generic oragel, get some Rx strength naproxen or motrin and everthing should be fine. I am very similar to your son, infact im only 26yrs old and had the same addiction as your son for a long time, so I can really relate to him. Theres a chance that he could take some opiates and not have a problem, its just not worth that chance, especially when the pain can be subdued with other means. I wish your son and your family the best,

[Redbluffer]

I was also addicted to methadone for a long time, I got up to taking  100-120mg daily for a couple of years, then found an addiction specialist who tapered me down to 30mg daily, then to a different doctor and on to suboxone. I was on Sub for 3 1/2 months and it really helped, cause coming off of methadone is much harder to do. So, anyways, I know I have to avoid taking any opiates now, I have a compounded gel called KGCL that I use for pain and if your son had any other type of pain you may look into it, but obviously it wont work for pain in your mouth. If hes going to get any opiates from the dentist I dont really think they need to be lortabs especially 10s, Ive had my wisdom teeth pulled and I got plain old 500mg vicodin for the pain, so maybe low dose vicodin may be ok, cause I can tell you hes not going to feel any sort of euphoria from them, not when hes been on sub and methadone. Ive been clean from Sub for almost 5months now, and about 3months ago I took some norco 10/325(3of them) and didnt feel anything, and afterwards I felt so ashamed for taking them, I had worked so hard for over a year in getting clean from opiates that when I took them it was like buyer's remorse I felt terrible for taking them. Maybe tramadol could be a better alternative than the lortabs, really for me anyways I know the pain from my wisdom teeth was very mellow and having some pain to endure is better than taking the risk of becoming an opiate addict again. I cant believe the dentist is giving out refills with the script also, 30 lortabs are plenty of medication to get thru any dental procedure, and your son hopefully, or you need to make this dentist aware of the situation.

[lovepat906]

Thanks for the recommendations. I talked to my daughter- who is usually very on target- and her point of view is that I should express my deep concern and make recommendations to him and his wife, but that I should not call the dentisit. She feels strongly that HE needs to take charge in this and if he is willing to take the risk of re-addiction, he will- dentist or not. I did call  his dr once before- the one that treated him after his car acident- who was perscribing more and more higher and higher dose PKs.My hub and I recognized the onset of addiction and asked the Dr to confidentially step him down. Guess what? The DR TOLD my son about our communication and asked HIM if he felt the need to step down. Of course you know what happened next. So. Still considering the options.

[ochooked]

Lovepat, I would highly recommend you call the dentist and tell the story -- -- He can and should prescribe non opiate pain med.  Like the post above, 800 motrin is a good one and even though he may have a moderate amount of pain, think of the temptation you are saving him, and the grief from being hooked again.  Be a good mom and help out behind the scenes - -you will never be sorry you helped him.  Best to you.

[SHELLBELL79]

If his all 4 wisdom teeth are impacted then he is going to have his stitches from the holes from pulling out the impacted teeth from the bone. I had all 4 done when I was 21 and it was pretty painful after the numbness wore off. I ended up getting dry sockets which is extremely painful. It is caused from sucking, SMOKING, etc. I didn't do either but, I was nauseated from the vicodin I was on and threw up from it. I personally never liked pain medicine and still don't. He is probably going to need a pain med. for the first few days. If he's an addict do not let him hold them!!! The only non -narcotic pain medicine that will definatly help him is 800 motrin...the script. Does he really have to get them out now??? He should put it off if he can. He is going to be hyersensitive to pain after just getting off pain medicine. I have severe chronic pain and just got off my horrible pain medicine and I need a lot of dental work done now,....that I have been putting off b/c of money but, now I am trying to put it off b/c I am so hypersenstive to pain right now. It really isn't fair. I hoped I helped a little! Good luck ! I am praying for all of you!
Shell

[Kova]

i agree that it is a great danger to have him on opiates again just from knowing myself.  maybe you should talk his dentist.  if there is a non opiate (i hate to use the term "narcotic"as it is used so liberally to desribe any illegal drugs) med he can take that will be just as effective then go for it!  do they have to actually cut into his jaw or can they just yank them out?  the cutting is very painful afterwards and he will definitely need something strong for the pain.

[Madisonjsmom]

It is a good thing that your son told his wife to hold the pills if he gets them. I have done that before, but it did not work for me, always convinced them to give them to me.
It only took one or two for me and I was right back on them. Good Luck I hope it all
works out.

[Flowergirl43]

My best friends son became addicted to pills after a bad car wreck.  Yes she called his dentist, his doctor anyone who would listen to keep him from getting on pills again.  She said no one told her son, the doctors prescibe him non-narcotic meds.  She went through hell with him so she felt she had the right to inform the doctors.  He is 27 and cannot figure out why he can't get narcotics.  Hope it works out for you, smiles!