just sitting here holding out til my next dose of tramadol

[pinkgirl73]

well I don't really have a question...it just helps me to write...lol.  I took my last 3.5 trams this morning at 9 am.  before that I hadn't had any in 17.5 hrs which was an accident cuz I had a few glasses of wine and went to sleep and woke up with withdrawals....ugh the restless legs and skin crawling is the worst.  anyway i'm startin to feel the withdrawals again cuz its been like 12 hrs now.  just laying here watching "don't be tardy" on bravo..lol. so i'm  just gonna wait as long as I can standit I guess.  what a long process this is.idont know if I need to start feeling uncomfortable before I take them but i'm thinkin it helps me go longer after a few days.  I don't know.

[IBKleen]

Why are you doing this to yourself? That IS NOT a taper if that is what you think you are doing. And honey I have to tell you..alcohol IS a drug and it is dangerous to take it with pain medication. Honestly, I don't see you getting clean if you keep this up. It's very sad. I will say a special prayer for you tonight.

[vicki595]

I agree with you IBK and I was thinking the same thing: it's not a taper. It sounds like torture and it doesn't have to be that way.

Pink: Why don't you just stop and get it over with? It would be nearly the same thing.

[vicki595]

Wait. 3.5 trams at 9?  Are you saying you took 3 and one half tablets at once?  Or 200mg?

[pinkgirl73]

no...u guys...I used to take 14 per day.  I've been on them for 10 years.  I have posted on my taper for a month.  I am down to 7 a day now.  I take 3.5 pills every 12 hrs...so its indeed a taper.  I used to take 5 pills in the am, 5 in the afternoon and 5 in the pm.  It kinda hurts my feelings that ur saying i'm not gonna get clean.  like I said I was updating on my progress of the taper and if I went to 14 a day to 7 in 6 weeks i'm pretty sure i'm doing well.  as far as the wine goes....I have a few glasses of wine every few months.  anyway I was just updating...for my own sake to pass the time.

[pinkgirl73]

I would never stop 10 yrs of tramadol abuse at high doses, cold turkey.  that's dangerous due to seizures and such.

[pinkgirl73]

I meant to say I went FROM 14 a day to 10 per day to 7 per day...in the course of 6 weeks.  I am going to eventually be at zero but its gonna take me a while.  It CAN be done.  The ppl on here are proof.

[atthebeach]

Hun we discussed it better to keep a constant level in your system.
Please don't wait 12 or 17 hours.
Divide the 7 pills throughout the day.
7 x 50 = 350.
You are right best not to cold turkey from there.
You are doing ok.
Best not to drink during your taper Hun.
Keep the faith.
You know you are now taking less than one month ago.

[pinkgirl73]

Thanks @thebeach.  Yeah it does make sense to maybe divide it up more instead.  Its like a wacky experiment.  I used to not even be able to go lo ger than 6 hrs when i first started.  I'm proud of myself tho cuz its not easy but i just dont like the pills.  Thanks for ur continued support.

[pinkgirl73]

I feel fine up to 12 hrs thats why i go that long.  I will try to spread it out tho the lower i get i guess.

[atthebeach]

Good girl. Keep up the good work.
You are doing great.

[vicki595]

Sorry I skipped over the amount of your daily dose. What is it 7 per day now?
I thought the seizure issue was related to increasing dosages above 8 per day and not so much from decreasing and stopping at 6-7 per day. I'm sure I've read this...Anyway, I am a big fan of tapering properly. I did it successfully and recommend it. I don't believe you're tapering properly. You're spiking doses and taking the doses at times that are too random. That's why you're feeling the way you are and that's why I suggested you just stop and go through the process.    Just a suggestion though. If this way is working for you that's great. It just didn't sound like it was working very well.  Best of luck!

[atthebeach]

Vicki she was on 700 mgs a day of trams for 10 years.

[vicki595]

I saw that Deb. She also went from 14 pills per day to 7 in one drop right? I wouldn't do that but she wanted to and she did that without much problem...I just think there's a better way to do this taper that will keep her more comfortable and without clock watching.  I think stopping cold turkey would be uncomfortable but probably not cause a seizure unless she has that history.   I'm still a huge fan of tapering and not cold turkey so we're thinking the same thing. That big hit of 3 and a half pills at once isn't a good thing though.  It's not helpful and will make this more difficult due to the way Tramadol works.   I was just thinking she might feel better if she did the taper differently/properly.  That's all.

[pinkgirl73]

I used to do 5 pills at a time. so then I went to 4 and now i'm at 2 doses of 3.5 each. I'm just trying to figure it out as I go.  As long as I'm still comfortable I guess I'll just keep doing what works but I have had to change things up a few times.  It was hard getting down to 2 doses of only 3.5 pills every 12 hours.  I'm not too uncomfortable at the 12 hr mark and I don't really go beyond that...maybe to 13 hrs if its not uncomfortable.  I guess its just a crap shoot seeing what works and what doesn't.  when u take 5 pills at a time and 4 at a time every few hrs its definitely a challenge reducing any part or lengthening the time periods between them.  I actually cant even believe the progress I've made so far.  Thanks for everyone's support.  I love this sight.  It's so helpful and I come here several times a day.

[Merri123]

I know from experience that drinking alcohol will make the restless legs worse at times. There are times I can have a glass of wine and I would be fine and others - yikes it started immediately.

So during your taper I would stay away from wine etc so that you don't make any wds worse.

You are doing good. I did a slow taper too. Would add an hour between and then started lowering till I was done. At the end I was cutting them in 1/2 then in 1/4s. Many don't believe in tapering but I had to do that.

So you just dropped on pill. When are you thinking of doing the next drop? Keep it up. Don't get discouraged. You're doing good!!!

[pinkgirl73]

thank you so much merri!  well I have been on 3.5 every 12 to 13 hrs now for about 4 days.  It hasn't been difficult at all except for the first week when I went from 14 a day to 8 a day.  That's when I had the withdrawals and restless legs, sweating, etc.  I think in maybe another week or 2 I will drop another .5 pill at my night time dose.  someone on some of my other posts said to drop the night timedose first, some said to wait 3 weeks and drop the dose...I am just doing what feels right to me.  I have terrible anxiety and mild depression history so that's why i'm trying to be very careful.  I can deal with the physical symptoms....its the psych symptoms that i'm scared of so I don't wanna go too fast.  I have enoughpills to do a really slow taper lasting several months but I want to get off these as fast as I can without screwing my head up.  When I dropped from 14 to 8 I felt fine after the first week and then 4 weeks later the phychological withdrawals caught up to me.  So I just try to really pay attn. to how I feel.  It took me 10 years to get to this point so I know I have to take my time and be careful.  Thanks so much for ur encouragement and support!!

[lulu747]

Hi There-

I have been following your story but have yet to chime in.  I know how hard Tramadol is to come off of- my best friend has been on them for a decade.  They were prescribed to her after a car accident as a non-addictive pain medication.  She started her taper taking 10 a day.  Then went down to 8.  She didn't sleep for a week and had terrible RLS and her psoriasis broke out something fierce.  Her doctor won't help her taper as the doctor doesn't believe they are addictive!!!!  Don't even get me started on this.  I told her to go slower so now she drops a pill once a month.  It's a marathon, not a sprint, and as Vicki said- go slow.

What really concerns me is that I read on another thread that you are drinking up to two bottles of wine a night plus taking percocet.  Is that true or am I mistaken?
I probably don't have to tell you how dangerous this all is.

Listen, you don't know me but I feel I would be remiss if I did not tell you that your real issue here does not lie in how many pills you take.  It lies in why you are putting all these mind altering substances in your body.  Until you do some recovery work to find out what hole it is you are trying to fill, you are always going to be suffering through one kind of detox merry-go-round or another.  Or you are going to end up dead.  Sorry to be so blunt, but it is the cold hard truth.  Just ask any of us addicts on here how many times we have been close to death, or had a close friend or family member die from such behaviour.  It is the greatest tragedy there is.  Addiction does not have to be a death sentence, but it will be unless you arrest it and begin living a life of recovery.
I would HIGHLY recommend you getting some proper counseling or therapy for your anxiety and depression issues if you aren't already.
Did you know that alcohol is a HUGE depressant?  
Reading your posts honestly scares the sh*T out of me.
You are self-medicating.
I did this for years. I have terrible chronic autoimmune illnesses and when I turned 28 my body fell a part.  I couldn't deal with it and I took any and all drugs that were prescribed to me by doctors.  I never abused these medications until I married a man who started abusing me verbally and sexually.  I am lucky I didn't kill myself.  I overdosed twice accidentally.
It NEVER ends well unless you put a stop to it.  It isn't something you can control, and it isn't something you can do alone.  You need and deserve support honey.
Self-loathing and abuse is a terrible thing.

Every time I do something, ANYTHING in life, I ask myself "Am I doing this out of love, or am I doing it out of fear?"
Making changes are scary.  But if you act out of love for yourself- true unconditional self love, then the scariest changes become the things that lead us to our greatest evolution and true happiness.
You deserve to be happy lovely.  Truly happy and whole.
I really hope you give yourself the chance to be.
Sending support.....
Lu

[vicki595]

I've read the same about the every month Percocet and wine party for one...so it begs the question pinkgirl: What are you doing here and what is the forum doing for you?

That behaviour is everything we are not about. Your current Tramadol taper is so atypical and will never work because the way I see it you're  spiking your doses twice per day and plan to continue into the future calling it a taper because you take 3 pills at once instead of 5.  That's not a taper. It's just taking less right now.  I can't accept your behaviour as "okay" when it's not. I don't even see the point. All I see is that you're high while everyone else is fighting against the current of the wave you're riding.

You can receive so much support here and I think you want to be sober but you need to change a few things beginning with living a sober lifestyle.  We can help you, I know we can, but not this way.  You need to get your head straight so your actions can follow and you're just not there at all right now.

It's time to do some thinking.

[pinkgirl73]

Vicki I don't understand why u are constantly being negative towards me....obvi if I do less tram less often and less dosage that is a taper.  and also thru being on here I am really starting to get real with myself about the perc wine thing and joined the group Smart Recovery so that I can have some sort of plan to try do stop making the same mistakes over and over.  I just don't see why u feel like u need to keep bashing me and judging me.  Every time I read a post from u its so discouraging.  I just don't understand why.  I mean I realize I have a problem.  several, in fact.  THATS what i'm doing on this sight, thank you very much.  I am trying to figure it all out just like everyone else had to one time or another and I JUST STARTED.  everyone has to start somewhere.  Every time I read ur posts they seem judgemental.  I mean I'm starting to think coming here was a mistake.  I try to help ppl with anything I can and I am looking for help and advice, not for someone to question my motives and make me feel bad.  I don't need to feel bad...I already feel bad enough. that's why I'm trying to get help.  I REALIZE i'm an addict and slowly killing my liver even if I only do it once a month.  I REALIZE.  So i'm not really sure what you would like me to do.

[pinkgirl73]

as afra s spinking my tram doses...I am taking less.  way less and less often so I don't understand what u mean by spinking.  I have to get off these trams and want to.  I am doing it the best way I can.  many, many ppl have helped me with this.  You are not the only one with an opinion.  I have followed several ppls advice about it...some even gave me advice on tapers that they got from a doctor.  as long as I get off and stay off...what difference does it make.  This morning I realized that I need to do something about the perc problem now...instead of wait til my tram taper is over.  I mean an addiction is an addiction so there is really no reason to wait to stop.  I am learning a lot here about myself, about others and about this disease.  I don't think ppl should be discouraging anyone from being on here.  I am not sitting around getting high while other ppl arebtrying to recover.  I am trying to figure out how to recover and how to make it last.  The comment on the post I made was to warn that guy of what his wknd warrior parties can turn into.  I realized today that I was missing the whole point of sobriety by taking percs and wine once a month while i'm trying to get off something else...that plan was ridiculous and realized that this morning after being on this sight pretty much 24/7 all week.  That is why I went to the Smart Recovery site and joined today as well as the Celebrate Recovery site and NA.   I am trying but I have no support here at my house...I sit in my room and read medhelp all day trying to figure it out.  That's the best I can do right now cuz that's all I KNOW HOW to do so far.

[vicki595]

Okay. That sounds good!  Your coming here was a positive thing not a negative. I'm just trying to figure it all out, along with everyone else, so I can help.   I don't feel like I'm being negative toward you but if that's how YOU feel I can accept that.  I want what you want, Sweetie, and I can see some flags that I needed to mention because they're scary.

Where is your support? Have you reached out to anyone? Husband?  Sitting in a room all day with only MH is sliding to a dark place so what can you do to change that?  If you read the thread that Gnarly asked us to comment on, you'll see a common theme. None of us have done "this" alone. Not one of us!

Believe me, I'm not picking on you in the way you think. I want to help. Are you planning to go to an NA or AA meeting? It will really help and give you some face to face support.  I understand about trying to figure out a plan of action, as well, and in spite of the way you've chosen to do things you HAVE decreased your Tramadol dose and nothing can diminish that! I know you're trying...now to get you out of the house!

[clean_in_ks]

It's great that you found MH....and it's great that you have reduced your daily tramadol intake.  It's also great that you aren't doing the booze/perc combo every night now but it may be even more dangerous to do that once a month or so as it creates that same "spike" affect you are addictively seeking and can be uber dangerous!  It's also great that you are making progress in your realization and thinking about your addictions.  The new realizations are what it's gonna take to get clean of all mind altering substances.  And then following thru and getting some help of some kind:  therapy, meetings, etc.  We have to get to the CAUSE of our desires to numb over.  And we can't do it alone.  We all need people to talk to.

One question I have had all along, that I think has been misunderstood, is what mg strength the tramadol is that you have purchased online and are taking?  The approved maximum dose is 400 mg/day....and that's what your dr originally prescribed right?  So, I assumed (maybe incorrectly) that you are taking 100 mg pills....not 50 mg?  This makes a huge difference in and of itself.
If you have yourself down to 7 pills/day....is that 700 mg or 350 mg???

Obviously you have put yourself on your own taper plan and for some reason have convinced yourself that taking a lot of pills at one time is better than spreading them out into even doses throughout a 24 hr day.  A true taper keeps blood levels EVEN during the day...and it lessens w/drawal feelings.  Your brain doesn't get a huge surge....then nothing for 12 hrs...and then another surge.  The anxiety and depression, while a huge part of getting off any opiate, would also be less severe if your brain wasn't getting a blast and then nothing.
The term "spiking" means to flood your brain/body with a high dose versus spreading the drug dose evenly every so many hrs.  Addicts spike there doses.....for the feeling.  I did it too.  That isn't really what a taper IS....because we are still taking more pills than necessary or safe at one time.
Yes it's GREAT that you have reduced the number of pills per day....but how about spreading those 7 pills out?

I hope you will consider ALL the feedback you get w/o getting defensive.  No one is attacking you or being negative.  Just trying to help and offer new ways of looking at all of this.
When you posted what you did on Craig's thread.....it threw up danger flags for all of us.  The deadly combo of alcohol/oxycodone is a concern because WE CARE ABOUT YOU!!!  If you were doing that nightly, and now have cut back to monthly, plus you have majorly reduced your Tramadol intake.....you could overdose NOW where you might not have before.  Your neurotransmitters are changing in your brain with each positive reduction you make.  We just don't want to lose you, ok?

Please re-think the details of your taper plan.....and please keep posting.  We are all rootin for you~

[Sweetness91]

I have to say I agree with CIK. I think everyone is just worried about you. We all express our thoughts and feelings differently, some come off sweet n nice, and others just say what they're thinking and don't sugarcoat anything. But at the end of the day, they all mean well and want to see YOU well! :)

Something I will never forget hearing here is "take what you need, and leave the rest". I wish you well and am also rootin' for ya!!

[pinkgirl73]

omg u guys!  u r all so right!!!  I am just so screwed up and so defensive.  I see exactly what Vicki was trying to say now about my taper not being a taper and me not succeeding with what i'm doing.  I totally get what u guys are saying now...I just took it wrong at first.  please forgive me...I am just having a time of it trying to figure this stuff out.  Also...I didn't realize about my tolerance to the percs, going down as I come of the tramadol and how dangerous that can be.  That is REALLY important to know and I appreciate that insight...believe me.  I am so sorry for taking what u said the wrong way Vicki....I appreciate what everyone on here is saying.