1348302 tn?1286575703

does she have BPD or abusive?

I dont know what it is abbout me.  I know I have some problems.  I know that.  THe chronic pain, PTSD and side effects make me someone people do not want to be around.  I understand that.  I hate it.  and it makes me so sad.  But I understand why.  I can comfort myself sometimes by telling myself that it isn't ME that people can't stand to be around, it is the physical manifestations of my conditions that people do not want to be around.  It makes for lonely life, but like I said, after spending a lot of time siucidal over it, now I am at least able to see that it isn't ME that is offensive to people, it is my conditions.
But, my mother, that is different.  She doesnt like me when I am having physical issues, but she even doesnt like me when I am having a better day and trying to get her to watch a 30 minute sitcom with me.  I even fast forwarded through the commercials (we have a DVR downstairs) so that she wouldn't have to sit with me for the full 30 minutes.  Even my dad tried to get her to sit down with me before he left for meetings.  I have been having a really bad day, but I went all the way downstairs.  It was obvious that the whole idea was for the 2 of us to watch something we could both laugh and smile at together.  But she got up and left the room without a word about 3 minutes after he pulled out of the driveway.
   I guess, I just don't understand.  Part of me thinks maybe she really does have BPD and maybe that is why she does the things she does.  But why would she wait till he leaves and no one can see it, then she just gets up silently with out even letting me know she is no longer going to be watching the show with me.  I feel like that is "silent treatmet"  even though I didnt ask her a specific question that she was refusing to answer, I think she knows that by getting up and leaving me alone in the room without even saying anything.  I think she has to know how much that hurts me.  I want to think she doesnt know, I want her to be just confused.  But the part of my brain that is still smart.  That part knows the truth I think.  I think I know that she is choosing her actions very carefully, and I know her well enough to know that she is aware of it when she does things like stay silent as she leaves a room that I am in.  And it wasn't even like I just happened to be in that room randomly.  Before my dad left the whole idea was that we would sit down and watch it together, her and I.  Dad and I even said that out loud.  I think he was trying to help me.  Trying to help get us both on neutral ground that was positive and smiling to hopefully begin to heal some of the damage our relationship has sustained since I started standing up and telling people about the physical violence.
I just don't understand what the issue is.  Why is everything I have tried to do for her not enough for her to like me.  Why does she go out of her way to do things, or make litle comments that she knows cut me to the core like a knife?  
I can''t help but think it is either that she just really doesn't even like me.  Like the real me, she might like the "me" that she wishes I would be, but the "me" who I am now, I think she doesn't want to be its mother.  I feel like she doesnt want me to be her daughter, that she would rather have someone who is more like her and who isn't always asking for extra help that she wouldn't otherwise need to give if I were a regular daughter.

I guess, I don't even know why I am writing this.  I will probably tell my dad that minutes after the garage door closed she got up and went outside to lay on the deck and read books and smoke and work on her tan.

Often I feel like before the accident.  Before all the things that it ended up causing my current situation, before, I wouldn't have been so dependant on her showing me that I was worth something.  Because I had work, and I was so good at it that it was kind of easy for me to pay attention to something else that I felt made me "worth" respecting and paying attention to, and spending time with, etc etc.

Now I don't have the ability to produce the things I used to.  So when she does things like that, it hurts even more.  Because I don't have any way to prove to her that I am worth speaking to when you leave the room.  Or even that I am worth staying in the room with.
How can she not see how her actions make me feel like a "nonperson"  I am just a lump of flesh in a chair or on a couch that doesn't even warrant basic human curtesy. I know she has to be able to see it, because I know that one cannot "accidently" forget to say a word while chosing to get up in the middle of a show that we are supposed to be bonding over, walk past me as I am talking, and open the door, walk through it, and close it, all without a word.  That is intentional.  I feel secure in saying that is not me being paranoid or oversensitive or all PTSD-ee.  SHe has done that same thing multiple times to me in other rooms when we are both in them under the impression that it is "quality" mother daughter time.

I am sad.  I don't know how to feel about this, and her, my mother, who I want to love me, and who I depend on for cargiving help and transportation to the Dr.  I don't know how much of it is my fault.  I don't know how to tell her how much it hurts me, because it seems like that is what she is trying to do.  It feels like she is trying to make me hurt as badly as she thinks I SHOULD hurt based on whatever issue she thinks she is "explaining" to me by her actions and by saying one thing while she obviously means another.
I feel like if I didn't have all the issues I have, I would be able to handle it, I would be able to not make it hurt so much.  But I do not have any idea how to handle this.  The only thing I know to do when I encounter people like this in my life, people that take more energy from you than they ever ever give, is to just walk away from them.  That is what I always did in my life before the physical issues.  But I cant walk away from her because we live here number one, but most impotantly, because I depend on her for physical help during the day, and for driving me places.  I am in the process of trying to make other arrangements for my rides places, but its not like there are people all over the place with nothing to do but drive me around.  IDK, any suggestions are welcome.  I will probably post this is the BPD forums and the PTSD ones to see if anyone has suggestions on how to "manage" this issue, and mostly how to manage the idea that my mom cannot give me what I need in a "mother".  :(
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Avatar universal
I absolutely agree with you about moving out of home.  I expect it will be challenging but honestly, at this time, it seems like the best option.

I wouldn't even like to hazard a guess as to what's up with your mother.  Although some of the traits fit, to me, it doesn't feel like bpd.  It feels like it could be something else.

Lying and denying are defense mechanisms.  They will be helping her to protect her vulnerable ego.  Sometimes we never get the validation we so desperately crave from our parents.

I think your father is sitting on the fence so he is trying to mediate between the two of you.  From my perspective he is weak and your family is most likely enmeshed.

I would leave.  Keep up with the therapy, etc and move on.  I would discuss all of the above with your therapist, they may be able to help you work through it.

I wouldn't even bother trying to fix your mother, at least not until you have resolved all your issues.  Some people just aren't all that interested in being fixed.
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1348302 tn?1286575703
I found out the truth about Honey in March.  Once I realized that she had been using me as a pawn in her relationship with my father, and that she had done it over and over again on a weekly basis with me for years, I felt more confident that I was not delusional about her capability to be intentionally malicious and lie.
   Once I realized that I was enabling her to continue this kind of fantasy victim world she had created, I stopped "parroting" back to her whatever complaint she had, or any random thing she said someone was doing unfairly to her and put my foot down. I got on the internet and found what I thought would be the best therapist for learning how to deal with stressful situations, so I made the appointment, I made her promise to go and she promised she would explain everything and how she is a caregiver for someone with PTSD and chronic pain etc.  I had been begging her to go to therapy for close to 10 years for various reasons, but she has always had an excuse like, "they are just going to tell me to leave my husband and I don't want to hear that" or similar.  Over the last 3 years she has kind of gotten into the habit of threatening suicide when she feels overwhelmed in an argument, or knocking oin my door to say she thinks she is having a heart attack, but she wont call the Dr, or let me call 911.  I remember enough of college to know that even if the threat is being used for attention, if it is a threat of suicide that is a suicidal thought, and if you are having that more than twice a month, no therapist is going to let you out of their office without telling you you need to be in some kind of therapy.  So I feel safe concluding she either didn't go to the appointment or she didn't disclose what was really going on.
   In any event, since I have begun therapy, her angry outbursts at me have escalated from things like slamming on the brakes, to shoving me backwards into a wall while screaming about me into the phone,to throwing big cardboard boxes at me, to kicking me in the right thigh. ( about 3 weeks before she kicked me in the thigh I had a procedure called RFA on 5 or 6 nerve roots that come out of my lumbar vertebra and sacrum causing severe radiating pain down my right leg for about 2 years.  I was just starting to be able to go for daily walks again and recover back to where I was physically before the procedure when she kicked me.  We had been talking in her room and she got angry with me over what we were talking about and told me to get out of her room, and when she said get "OUT" she was standing in front of me and picked up her leg and kicked out at my thigh with the bottom of her foot pushing back on my leg as if to push me backwards or buckle my leg, which almost happened.
  When she did this I totally didnt know what to do.  If it had been anybody but my mother I would have picked up the closest thing and hit them with it.  It hurt so bad I couldn't move but she just got inches away from my face and kept saying "this is my house and my room get out" and spitting on my face as she was saying it. Luckily my husband had heard her yelling and had come down the hall from our bedroom just in case because he knew she can get a little nutty sometimes.  I was crying so hard I couldn't even move my arms after she kicked me.  I couldn't believe that my mother was doing this to me, even as I saw and felt it.  
  I want to believe that she didn't mean it.  But I had told my dad about it a few days ago and he says when he confronts her she denies it.  But last night after another 4 hour "weird mom thing" the 3 of us were finally all in one room when he brought it up and she denied it and said she had kicked a laundry basket not me and that she was just being blamed for it, but then my dad saw her body language and the way she denied it, plus the fact that my thigh is about 3 feet above where a laundry basket would be, and he said he doesn't beleive her and that even if she did just kick a laundry basket she shouldnt be kicking something close enough to me to even possibly accidentily nick me.  But he says "that shouldn't happen" all the time about stuff that she does, he cannot really solve the issue.  he also says that he can't believe me either because no one actually saw it happen besides me, my husband only heard the reaction from me and rushed into the room and picked me up and pulled me out, but he didn't actually SEE her kick me.
   There is way more stuff too, she has stolen about seven thousand dollars from me in the past 2 years, she tells lies to my dad about using the lawnmower so he will blame my brother for the damage she caused to it.  Stuff like that.  I literally have pages of it single spaced.  I was going to post about what happened last night, but it told me I exceeded the 8000 character limit and I was only halfway through explaining it.  (I am longwinded when I am hurting really bad because it is really hard for me to think of the right words to articulate what I mean, so I end up explaining things in really long complicated and annoying ways.
  I don't know how much of my own assesment of the situation I can trust because I know it is easy for me to be depressed etc. and being in chronic pain can totally mess with me sometimes, so I don't want to be defaming her or anything if what I am observing is likely just caregiver stress.  I have decided moving out is the best thing for my mental health, even if it means I can't take care of myself or a house the way I would like to be able to if I had physical help during the day, I feel like that would still be better than wondering when she is going to turn into the "kicking" mother all the time.
But, even if her behavior is consistent with abuse, she is still my mother.  It might hurt a lot to go through it, but the emotional pain of not understanding why she would kick me and then lie about it, or the other things she does, I guess I am hoping to ease that pain with some advice or something if her behavior does sound like BPD.
Thanks again for answering my post.  I really appreciate you taking the time. :)
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1348302 tn?1286575703
This whole thing has been ongoing for a few years now.  I was in a car accident about 5 years ago and am one of the super lucky people who ends up with a ridiculously painful amount of "injuries" that will not heal.  So I have diagnoses out the ying yang that basically amount to major muscle problems all along my spine and hips and buttocks, and some damage to a number of discs and facet joints all along my back and sacrum.  I also have severe radiating nerve pain down my arms and legs.  I ended up having to stop working a few years ago and I don't drive because I have these "attacks" in cars and other places where my body kind of does its own thing and I don't feel safe driving myself.  
    I was in therapy for a while a few years ago when I was first diagnosed with PTSD. At least 8 weeks or more.  At the time I did not realize what parts of my day to day difficulties were PTSD and I think that was one of the reasons therapy didn't help me with the car issues, or really much else either.  (background on me, I am 29 and have a BS in SWK but had been working as a retail manager all through college and for the years after I graduated, up until I had to quit under threat of demotion because I hadn't "adequately disclosed my disability" prior to hiring., so traditional CBT was nothing new to me, but it didn't touch the anxiety and MAJOR depression from the whole MVA/disability debacle)
Quite frankly, I still don't know all of the things in my body that are PTSD related. I have only just realized that my leg and thigh muscles spasm more than usual (I have spasms from the MVA I am on baclofen for) I have begun therapy again about 2 months ago.  The reason I did is because I found out sort of a "family secret" of hers one night and all of the sudden it was like "wham" knowing the truth explained a lot of her behavior over the years, things that had always struck me as "not quite right" in the psychological sense, little lies, strange and overdramatic reactions to things involving plate throwing and door slamming finally made sense.
   I don't know if I am articulating that correctly.  Basically I found out that she had taken our family pet to the vet one day under the guise of "boarding" her for a vacation, and had her put to sleep because she was tired of having a big dog and has already ordered a "designer" mini chihuahua.
        this was at least 15-17 years ago when this occured, I was home alone when she pulled into the garage with my beloved dog dead on the front seat. I had no clue we were even boarding the dog.  She had not told anyone that she had ordered the "new" dog, she just decided she wanted a new one and killed the old one one afternoon without talking to anyone in the family. My dad found out that she ordered the new dog before killing the old one, let's call her "honey" for the sake of conversation, when he found the receipt and called the number on it, he found out when she had ordered the dog, and traced the dates back.)
  When I found out the truth about Honey, I felt betrayed by her, because for 15 years I have agreed with her when she "vented" about how my dad just stopped loving her for no reason one day, and that men do that, and he is such a (insert slanderous adjective of the week) etc. etc.  And literally thousands of times she has said things to me about what an ******* he is because when they get into arguments he says she killed his dog, and that he is emotionally abusive to her because she "did the right thing" by putting the dog to sleep because she was sick and the vet told her she had to. Even when she knew I knew the real truth, she tried to lie and say she felt like she had to do it because she was afraid Honey would bite someone.  But she got really mad when I told he I wasn't going to listen to anymore stories she comes up with to convince me she was doing anything besides what amounts to the theft and murder of a family pet.  When I realized I was physically sick to my stomach and could actually HEAR the blood rushing in my neck at the thought of leaving a child around her, I knew I had to get into therapy at least to make sense of how I now felt about my mother.

   I had told my dad once, back when I was first in therapy for ptsd and chronic pain a few years ago, that it seems like she goes out of her way to slam on the brakes in the middle of the street or something if I don't agree with her about things in the car.  One of the things that she has done that about is when I will not agree with her that my dad is an *sshole for not giving her a "raise" (he gives he an ungodly monthly stipend which is supposed to be for "household" expenses, but she wont spend it on household maintenence or anything, she keeps saving it for some pool that my dad has made clear he is never ever going to agree to.  She also kind of hoards fabric for sewing projects she never completes, but that is a whole different story, lol)  but anyway, I had told my dad about it once long ago and I got the feeling he thought I was kind of misconstruing things, but since I have gotten back into therapy, I know for sure that there is a measurable difference in her driving when she is angry with me.  I am not ascribing some perceived meaning to hectic driving conditions, I am talking about full on slamming on the brakes to a complete stop in the middle of downtown traffic at rush hour, or passing one entrance we normally take into my therapist office, which is 1 right turn at low speed, so she can make 3 left hand turns around the perimeter of the parking lot at high speeds without touching the brakes.  Then she turned to me and said "what, I thought you liked it when I don't touch the brakes around corners"
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Avatar universal
I just lost my message.  Just briefly, I think you could be making erroneous assumptions (that your mother is cognizant of her behavior and how that impacts on you).

I don't know if your mother is angry with you or with what caused you to be in this situation or with herself.  Does she feel responsible?  She may be running from you because she has trouble dealing with what she feels she may have caused/ contributed.  Most likely she is running from some aspect that she has difficulty tolerating.  Not sure what that is.  The hurt?  The physical violence?  The vulnerability?  The loss?
It could be that she can't get past that to even see you and see that her actions are hurting you.

I think you need to talk to her.  Tell her how you feel.  Ask her what is wrong, what she thinks and feels, why she is so angry, what have you done to make her feel this way.
If you don't want to do that, what about writing a letter to her?

You both need to talk.  I think that you both might need therapy.  I think that your mother needs to work through some of her thoughts and feelings with someone.  It almost sounds as though your mother may be depressed or still in shock.  It sounds as though she may have just closed herself off to protect herself.
What does your father suggest?  Is he aware of what is going on with your mother?
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