Detoxing pain meds./opiates

[ChannahBracha]

About 6+ months ago, I began a post about wanting to quit taking pain (opiates) meds. It hasn't been going very well!
There were just too many "rescue" days when I had to go back to my original dosing schedule and I am feeling defeated! It's either that I have too much pain and can get nothing done (my rt. wrist has had reconstructive surgey back 9/18/13 and it STLL hurts like hades! I'm using "Salonpas" otc patches and they work pretty well.
But, if there's anyone else trying to detox, I'd like to get together online, here, not to give advice per se, but what has worked for other people. I am finding that there's a BIG "mental" component, and I really fear the detox. I get just a day into it and I collapse. I AM trying to write it all down ....but there's no progress.  Misery loves company!!
I have NO support from anyone here...not my BF, he doesn
t know what to think...all me see-sawing...cluck cluck cluck! CHICKEN!!...Help?

[tiredofthetabs72]

Hey I am in the process of winning down, I was taking 4x10/325, for 5 years since a spinal fusion at L1 and L2 that did not do what was promise, maybe even more pain. But I am so tired of the pill fog, my life revolving around meds that didn't really help that much. I feel these meds have changed my life, made me someone different. I just want to try life without them, yes I do have pain, but like to see how bad the pain really is without these meds. The procedure at my pain clinic really help more than the meds anyway, will probably keep having them.

I am here to support you, don't you remember life without them.

[ChannahBracha]

This is late coming but I have finally DETOXED as of 10/18/16. I had tapered for 6 months from my prescribed Percosets and I'm finally DONE. Just some "PAWS" now but I have some meds for those. See? IT CAN be done but you have to really want it and stick w/ your program.  ;-)

[ChannahBracha]

Oh, and that was getting off MS Contin 1st.

[philnoir]

It's a good idea to once in a while test the effectiveness of your opiate medication. Every time I try, I realize how much it helps.

Channah, if you truly wish to give up your opiates, there is a addiction / subtance abuse forum on medhelp (see the menu under Forums), and many Journals where you'll information and support.

Best wishes.

[ChannahBracha]

That group is too gung-ho about quitting since their only problem is "addiction & craving" they seem to think that NO one should take pain meds! They do not understand those of us that DO have a legit reason for taking opiates. I'm coming back to P.M. group!

[tiredofthetabs72]

Just curious why you would suggest that channah go to addiction/substance abuse forum? Please as we all know , that we that are on pain management, get treated bad enough without being treated like that on this site. Hope you did not mean it that away. We are dependent on our meds, cause chronic pain stinks, but it also stinks knowing you always have to take a pill to feel like living.  

[ChannahBracha]

You are right. That group is not 4 me! They have a totally different mind-set about opiate meds.....like NO one should take them.??? IF I wanted to abuse drugs, I have bottles full that I haven't taken. NOT an "addict"! Just physically dependent because it's a necessary evil that comes w/ pain management.

[BokehGirl]

Hi,
I am also a Chronic Pain patient tapering from Narcotics :)
Sorry you interpreted Phil's comment as offensive.  
For anyone seeking input and support while considering a taper,
Addiction/ Substance Abuse forum is an excellent resource.
No shame here :)  Best wishes.

[ChannahBracha]

I didn't interpret Phil's comment as offensive. He was trying to help but that group is more for "abusers" and not compliant patients.

[BokehGirl]

Thinking of you Channah with support and love.
Keep posting ~ we are all here for you!

[ChannahBracha]

Sorry I was gone for so long. ADHD, you know, so I'm "scattered" and not too focused a lot. But I did get detoxed on my own; very little help but I had some meds that helped. I had tapered for  6 mos. before hand, too. THAT really helped !!

[Jinx_777]

i am a chronic pain patient also who has moderate to mostly severe pain.  i went off all meds 4 yrs ago to find out where my pain was and because i felt like crap needing the pills.  i made it for over 2 yrs without them, but started having kidney and stomach issues from all the otc medication i was taking that really did not help much at all.  my choice to get back on them was mostly due to wanting to cut down, if not stop the otc meds i was taking.  people don't really think about how bad that is for you and there is no stigma attached to otc meds.  well, not entirely true, my mom once accused me of abusing motrin. lol
even though i do not take more than i am supposed to, i still HATE having to rely on the doctor for them every month. worry about going on vacation, not having insurance, etc.  it really is a very personal choice and struggle.  

[tiredofthetabs72]

Sorry, I was just wondering, because I have read a lot of their  post on that site also, and they just want you off of the meds, we have chronic pain, I really would like to never need one again, but I have a lot of medical problems,it may not be possible. Plus I have never abused, yes dependent, most people in lots of pain become dependent pretty quick. Thank all of y'all, love any input.

[ChannahBracha]

Well here it is Feb. 8, 2016 and I have only reduced my opiate intake, not totally quit. I even forgot this site. I am down to 1-2 10/325 Percocet a day but I still want to quit. We'll see how it goes and if my ADHD allows me to remember this forum. Shalom, Hannah

[ChannahBracha]

OH!! Thanx for your input!

[tiredofthetabs72]

Thanks for your comment, I know when my drs put me on the meds at first, he said these meds are better for you then the over the counter ones, said they can do a lot of damage to your body. Well that was in 2008, here in Alabama we have so many people abusing and selling, so a lot are judged because of a few. I have had mine stolen a couple of times, once was my step son, and I had them hid well. It's an awful life, we want to be pain free, but would like our freedom too. I would like y'all's inputs on how y'all deal with the struggle.  

[ChannahBracha]

Me too; soooo tired of going to pain management every month...the whole routine. Yesterday I took 1 1/2 percocets and none ...yet...today. Wish me luck.   Shalom

[Jinx_777]

same stigma here.  have had my daughter's dad steal mine before and i now have to lock them up.  i am struggling with the same thing.  i go to the dr tomorrow so i really have to decide today.  as much as i want off of them, i KNOW i cannot be free of them.  i do myself more harm than good.  instead of 1600 mg of motrin and 440 mg of naproxen i just have 1 patch on and only take up to 4 percocets per day.   also take regular aspirin as well.  i compromise with myself by trying to stretch out my dosages when i can.  say on a saturday and sunday, if i do not have to do anything then i won't take more than 2 breakthrough meds and will try and make patch last 72 hrs often.  (not just on weekends) if the pain is unbearable then i change the patch.  

[tiredofthetabs72]

You are not an addict, so I wouldn't have your dr to cut you off, cause you know those flare ups are awful, I don't think I could taper in the winter,  every cold front kills me. I have talked to my dr about my concerns and they never have wanted me to just stop, they said taking less is ok, never take more In less they tell you to though, lol, but they know I need them. But just want to know life without them right now if I can,so please pray I can. I am taking 1 less for a couple of days now. So far so good.

[ChannahBracha]

The detox is going great! I have no withdrawal symptons! YEAH I', OFF the percocet! If anyone who wants to know how I did it just message me.

[ChannahBracha]

2016 Feb., it didn't go so well. I am still taking about 1-2 10/325 percs. per day...and NOT for pain necessarily. bummer

[ChannahBracha]

I did finally totally quit the meds 10/20/16. For real. It was tough but so worth it !

[BokehGirl]

Hi there ~

It makes me happy to hear from you :)
Chronic Pain is so unspeakably difficult. It affects every facet of daily life - the pain itself  is devastating :( :( :(   Equally or more damaging is the shame and despair from not being taken seriously and misunderstood/labeled as drug-seekers. Too many physicians are under-educated about pain and their knowledge (compassion ?!!) deficit often lead to under-medication, shame and more pain.

You have so much to offer!  I hate that you are suffering from Chronic Pain and hope your MD is knowledgeable and compassionate and helping your pain with medication and concern.

Always with love,
BokehGirl

[ChannahBracha]

2/8/16  That didn't go well....back to quitting but at least in the last year I got it cut down to just 2-3 Percocet a day.

[ChannahBracha]

It's up & down....detoxing,,,and no reason to suffer more than you have to.!!

[tiredofthetabs72]

Yes my pm dr is great, I am lucky cause I have had horror stories, of people that are not happy with theirs. But I have been taking these meds non stop since September 2009, after my back fusion, so just wondering, how much I hurt without them completely out of my system. My pm dr support me, my meds as prescribe as needed anyway. But would love any input, or support. I'm hurting pretty bad right now, using heat pad, trying to put off last pill of the day until bedtime.

[BokehGirl]

So glad your pain management physician is helpful and supportive. I admire your intention of exploring the option of experiencing what may lie ahead with less or no medication. That said, I'm very concerned about your pain.

Here's my two cents (input) :)  I hope you might consider waiting. Discuss your situation with your doctor with complete honesty. My ears perked up reading that you were "trying to put off last pill of the day until bedtime" even though you were hurting pretty bad.

On a cautionary note, if your doctor suggests a switch to Methadone or any other similar synthetic narcotic, say "Thanks but no thanks". When the time is right, i.e. your pain is stable and in good control, decreasing or tapering will be much more tolerable on your current medications. Say "NO" to Methadone.

With love and support,
Bokeh Girl :)

[ChannahBracha]

Seriously!! Methadone can give you w/d symptoms for a MONTH!!!....even if you taper down.

[ChannahBracha]

It's been about 12-16 hours w/out any opiate meds. G-d, Hashem, PLEASE make this as easy as possible for me.
The reason I have chronic pain is because I broke my L hip in'09 and I've had a complete  reverse shoulder replacement (R)....and a plate in my wrist.
But I STILL want off the opiate drugs. I am using "Aaron Cohens'" (see youtube) which consists of using several OTC meds to reduce the w/drawal
: Lopramide,cimetadine(Tagemet) Robotussin regular cough gels and grapefruit juice. You have to see the yidio to understand it all, I know he talks fast but he speaks the truth. I think we have more fear of w/drawals!Here is the web address
https://youtu.be/ciICwalNOjE? OTClist=PLbtDDd07DXqGWwQR2BLK9S_Sb9kF4iqrZ

[ChannahBracha]

PLEASE disregard that last post! NOT a good idea. !

[Tuckamore]

Sorry Channah,

I don't see a post from BrokehGirl since August 8, 2014. I doubt she will see your comment.

~Tuck

[ChannahBracha]

Well, it's been about 30 hrs. OFF all opiate meds. If I get too jittery I have medication for "Restless Leg Syndrome; I   also have medicine. You always need to keep a "rescue-dose". That legs-a-jerkin' is THE worst. I also have some Clonipin which is like valium and they do help. I am prescribed these meds.  
I feel pretty good today and I'm using Aaron Cohens method if you are detoxing. He's on YouTube. He talks really fast but you'll get his drift.
   Shalom, Diana

[Tuckamore]

Congrats and good luck. Detox is a tough road.

Here's a link to another MedHelp Forum that I think may offer better support. They understand detox better than we Chronic Pain Patients.

http://www.medhelp.org/forums/Addiction-Substance-Abuse

Keep up the great work. I know it's very, very difficult.

Peace,
~Tuck

[ChannahBracha]

I can't get into the Drug Forum. Help???

[ChannahBracha]

Well, I have my pain meds to fall back on in  case it gets REALLY bad. I have a whole arsenal .....and I do NOT want to take anymore.  I'm REALLY going to get  off the pills this time.
I am really  in a brain for fog, like I forget something in just a few seconds. I
  
...................So, the "Plan" is to reduce slowly down to where I'm taking 0.

I just get all panicky and nervous about quitting. YOU MUST QUIT!!!!!! If I come on here everyday, can I get some support....I need a Coach.
Shalom, Channah

[Tuckamore]

You are more than welcome here. I know you are NOT and addict. I truly understand your want to be rid of these opiates and the stigma that accompanies them.

I don't understand why you can't get in another forum. If you'll explain which one and what's happening I'll be more than happy to help you. When you say "drug" forum which one is that?

If you check my last post and follow that like you'll be able to get support with withdrawal, etc. If want our support we'll certainly do our best. Just remember we are not withdrawing and may not be as knowledgeable as other forums - but we're here for you.

I wish you luck and know that if you want something bad enough and your pain is controlled by other non-opiate measures you'll make it. Have you cut your usage is half - or a third- where are you in terms of reducing?

Shalom,
~Tuck

[Tuckamore]

I'm usually here everyday - though my best friend is visiting. I will do my best to check with you everyday.  

Being a Coach is not my forte - but trying to help is.

Peace,
~Tuck

[namnam46]

Hi Channah!  :)
I'm so sorry for your struggle that you are going thru, trying to get off of your prescription meds for your numerous pin issues.  I'm glad that you are on the PM (Pain Management) Forum but I truly feel to be able to get the help you are seeking the Substance Abuse Forum would give e you the support that you are seeking.  I know the name itself gives the stigma that you are abusing your meds but that's just NOT the case as I, as well as other members on here such as Tuckamore and Philnoir know!  You have always taken them responsibly and have nothing to be ashamed of.  We have had MANY people on here that have either reduced their intake of meds or done what you are in the process of doing and when they do they use our great Substance Abuse Forum. They are WONDERFUL and COMPASSIONATE on their Forum.  They will give.you loving support EVERY STEP OF THE WAY!   So PLEASE don't be stigmatized  by the name as, BELIEVE ME, they are there for EVERYBODY.  You will find exactly what you are looking for. Not only that but you won't just have 1 coach, you will have MANY coaches.  SOMEONE will ALWAYS  be there for you.  If there was a cure for my DDD (Degenerative Disc Disease) and I could stop my meds, that's EXACTLY where I'd go for help when I needed it to help me in getting off my meds.  


PLEASE know that you are ALWAYS welcome on the PM Forum also.  We hope you will be an active member on the PM Forum also as a contributing member.  Unfortunately, you're very well acquainted with CP ( Chronic Pain ) and that's what we're all about.  With your knowledge, you would be very helpful in giving support to our members that suffer so much with pain daily.  

I wish you the very best in your quest to being able to get off you pain meds.  I HOPE you will come back and keep us updated on your progress.

BEST OF LUCK, Channa!   .....  Sherry  :)

[clean_in_ks]

Hi, Channa!  Like Tuck said, if you want some support and some tips as you get off the pain meds, the substance abuse forum would help you.
Here's the link, and if you just post a new question by clicking on the green box at the top of the forum, many in our forum will help you with opiate w/drawals.  Hope to see you there:

http://www.medhelp.org/forums/Addiction-Substance-Abuse/show/77

[philnoir]

Dear ChannahBrancha.

The good folks at MedHelp notified me that your post was again active and has been moved to the Detoxing from Pain Meds forum, which is not my usual sandbox.

First, thank you ChannahBrancha for keeping us informed. We are concerned about you, and would like to help you if we can.

If it is your decision to stop you opioid therapy, then I support you. I believe that I shared with you that I have some experience with this in my own pain care.

With long experience, I understand the problems of this therapy, and resonate with your desire to be done with it.

Let me share that in my experience, and in the medical literature, weaning slowly is the best way to go.

When you've been dependent at a relatively high dose of opioids for a length of time, then safety demands that you wean slowly.

And when I say slowly, I mean 10% a month, or longer.



Many physicians do not agree with weaning this slowly.

Please remember that I am not a doctor. I am a pain patient, just like you.

But I've been at this for so many years now that I sometimes feel like a pain doctor, so please excuse me if I sound like one at times. I am not offering medical advice, and my suggestions sometimes fly in the face of medical wisdom.

So please use a good deal of skepticism when considering my advice. I am not a doctor. What works for me may not work for you. But I would not mislead you intentionally.

So please, wean slowly and stay comfortable. Use medical means of support, like the clonidine, the lomotil or lopramide for GI distress (I prefer good old fashioned Pepto Bismal), the decongestants for runny nose -- whatever it takes.

I find that small amounts of benzodiazepenes are useful, in particular, clonazepam for anxiety. Some people like alprazolam (Xanax), but that medication has certain problems -- a short half life, a slight buzz that can instigate a psychological dependence. You don't want to trade one drug for another, but for some people, feeling good enough to sleep during withdrawal may not be a bad thing.

But nothing in my experience helps with those myoclonic tics -- the restless legs, as they are called, that can come on like electric shocks in the legs and arms, especially when you're trying to sleep.

They are insidious. The seem to wait until I am just falling asleep, and then -- ZAP. They wake me up. It's like torture.

Clonidine and benzos might help, but not for me. I need to move when this happens. Exercise is sometimes the only way to get relief.

Now I'm going to something controversial. Addiction doctors and recovery people will disagree with me on this. They'll tell you I'm either the Devil incarnate, or that I'm terribly mislead.

Take that little bit of opioid of a different stripe and allow yourself to get a few hours of sleep. For example, if you were dependent on Fentanyl patches, this is a phenylpiperadine type of opioid. So try a small dose of morphine, or oxycodone to sleep.

Likewise, if you were on an opiate, like morphine or codeine, or a semi-synthetic opiate like oxycodone, hydrocodone, hydromorphone, etc, then try a 5mg (small) dose of methadone to get some sleep.

Always use a different class of opioid that uses different metabolic pathways from the medicine you are most dependent on.

Unfortunately, we've lost a few opioids over the years. We used to have more choices. I was able to break an oxycodone dependence in 1991 with the help of an old addiction specialist, by using a combination of propoxyphene and chlordiazepoxide.

Today, we don't use propoxyphene anymore because it has a toxic metabolite.

We're too focused on safety, imho. The amount of propoxyphene I needed for a month to detox and settle down a 60mg / day oxycodone dependence in 1991 was irrelelvant. My liver is just fine today. In fact, I used propoxyphene in its compound with acetaminophen called Darvocette-N for years in the 1980s when I had only mild-moderate pain.

And I'm here, still alive, to tell you about it.

My wife's grandmother used to say you can eat a peck of dirt before it kills you. The same goes for a healthy liver and propoxyphene.

Remember -- this is NOT medical advice. Just the ravings of an old desert rat whose brain is rotted from excessive sheep dip inhalation.

ChannahBracha -- we care for you and want the best for you. Please message me personally (right click my name, open my profile, and send me a Message.) I will come and help.

God bless you. Withdrawal is a time for positive self-talk, belief in miracles, and prayer.

May angels visit your bed nightly and softly whisper sweet soothing secrets in your ear as you sleep.

My advice is free -- it is not medical. I don't wish to treat you -- only to help you find peace.

May God bless you and keep you in His arms.

Best wishes.

[ChannahBracha]

Thanx so very much, Phil. It is Feb. 2016 and I am still  down to 1-2 10/325 percs./day.  When I try to stop even that minute amount I just get SO IRRITABLE, biting peoples heads off...can't get comfortable in my own skin, can't sleep...etc. I need Clonipin and the only way for me to get it is thru a shrink and that's a hassle because I have to tell him I'm having anxiety.....and yes I am...but....
Shalom