I think I screwed myself...

[Sosadinny]

I have been posting here a lot and I apologize in advance. I have been extremely sick the past week and not understanding how since I have been trying to stabalize on the 40mg of hydro for a week...  Could the reason why I am having trouble stabalizing is because I jumped from about 3mg of Subutex to 40mg of Vic? In my previous thread someone mentioned this and it makes sense.... I assume I am withdrawing off the subs and that is what is killing me. I know 3mg Sub is a hgiher opiate dose than 40mg hydro but im a week and the 40mg is not even stopping the diahrea.  could this be why I am feeling so bad? I want to taper down the hydro but was hoping to get stabalized on it first.

[clean_in_ks]

Yes....3 mg of sub is equiv to about 90 mg of hydro....so not knowing how LONG you were on the subs......just that drop to 40 mg of oral hydro will cause w/drawals.  Not knowing how long you were on the subs plus how long ago you switched back makes it hard to say.  But if I were you I'd stabilize on the oral hydro and then taper until your Mom gets there.  Then I'd jump while she's there to help.  I suggested it in one of your other threads.
Also wanted to share with you (since you are new to the forum) that it's best if you just keep posting your questions, etc on the same thread if you already have one started for the day.  It makes it easier for us to follow you and also gives room for more questions on the front page of the forum.

[Sosadinny]

Thank you for the reply clean_in_ks. I will stick to one thread then...sorry about that, i'm a bit frantic right now.  I was only on the subs for a month....Your suggestion is a good one,  I just hope I stabalize quick... its kicking my butt. Although I am second guessing if I should have gone off of the sub so quickly as my moods are eratic. TY again and sorry about the multiple posts.

[Sosadinny]

btw I switched back to hydro a week ago.

[lulu747]

Yes honey- just stay at this dose until you stabilize.  Wait for your Mom to get there and stock up on all the detox supplies you need.  Then you can JUMP and the net will appear.  We will all be here to catch you, support you, lift you up, and hopefully make you laugh.
You're gonna be just fine.
I promise.
Please stop being hard on yourself.  It is the last thing you need right now.  In yoga we practice mytrie- the art of being ones own bestfriend.  Do this and you will be stronger and this process will be loads easier.  No recriminations.  No negative self talk.  Keep telling yourself I am doing this I am doing this I AM DOING THIS and before you know it you will have done it.
Make sure you're drinking LOTS of water okay?  Like ten times more than you think you can.  Also peppermint tea is wonderful and easy on the tummy.
Sending support and hugs...
Lu

[clean_in_ks]

If you were only on the sub one month (I was too) and switched back to hydro a week ago.....you should begin to level out each and every day now. (I think you went from the equivilent of 90 mg down to 40 mg but the sub is totally synthetic and affects our brains much differently than the hydros)  Your sub dose was MUCH lower than mine and you weren't on it long enough to build up like those who take it longer or at a much higher dose. (that's a REALLY GOOD thing)

You're doing just FINE....you really are.  Just stay on your dose.....read your threads over and over for continued encouragement and start some postive self-talk.  It's more powerful than you can imagine.  By the time your Mom arrives....you'll be stabilized and ready to get r done while you have the blessing of her presence.

And no worries about the multiple posts...you don't know if no one tells ya, right?  LOL

[Sosadinny]

You are all a God sent! I will work on my positive self talk. I've been saying the serenity prayer a lot but have been extremely pessimistic. I need to change that, the mind is so powerful! I really appreciate you all easing my mind and being there for me and answering my questions. God bless you all!!!

[lulu747]

haha Connie- I swear we are twins giving the exact same advice (:

Hey Sosa-
Try this (I swear it works)
Get a journal.  Every morning first thing just blat out all the things that are on your mind.  Worries, fears, frustration, lists of chores, etc.  Then at the close of each entry write
I love you.
I am doing this
I am doing this
I am doing this.

Our minds are our MOST powerful tools.  Our inner dialogue dictates our lives and our choices more than you realize.
Take it one step at a time.  Try not to look at this as a whole big picture thing you will get overwhelmed.  Just focus on one small piece at a time.
This is the key to success.
And we all want this for you!  You SO deserve it.
xoxoxo
Lu

[Sosadinny]

Ty lulu... that seems to be a problem , i project a lot and get overwhelmed. I had a bad night last night but stuck to the 40 mg... just kept saying i can do this. Once I even oout from teh Subutex I think I will feel a little better.... I keep thinking that at least. lol

[Sosadinny]

Had a hell night last night. Really considering asking my Dr to go back on subs and wean lower... Going from the 2mgsub to 40 mg hydro is not cutting it. I'm a week in and a mess... I thought I would feel better by now. I am at work today for a few hrs I hope I d

[Sosadinny]

Sorry got cut off... That's burst out crying. Had to take 5mg hydro at 3am to stop the stomach pain and crawlies that I thought were gone. Sorry just venting:(

[lulu747]

I would strongly recommend- instead of upping your dose of hydro and messing with your taper that you instead get something to help ease the withdrawal symptoms.  Yes there are vitamins and supplements and natural calming aids etc etc.  These are great tools for rebuilding your body and brain but do not actually help the IMMEDIATE.
I say this A LOT on this forum but Clonidine which is a BP med COMMONLY used in opiate detox is an absolute God send.  I took it for 4 or 5 months while tapering and then when I jumped off at 140 mg I upped my dose (under dr supervision of course)  
I still went through HE**
But I did not- Vomit once or have the creepy crawlies.
So- this is something I would add to your arsenal rather than mess with your taper.  I know you've been feeling like cra* for awhile because the subs have such a long half life but hang in there.  Don't go up whatever you do as it will only make things harder in the long run.
xo
Lu

[VICourageous]

Hi. If you mix the subs with other opiates you can feel very sick and emotional. Just stick with the hydos and taper that down..(my opinion). The subs hit those opiate receptors a bit different then the other opiates do. The subs will block your emotions a bit stronger then the other opiates. Just keep drinking LOTS of fluids and take vit/min and eat very healthy. Like Lu said it does take time for the vit/min to kick in too. If you are having some high Anxiety there is things that can calm you down. Try some teas or a powder called "Calm" it has magnesium in it. I had not slept for over 22 days back in 2012 when I went c/t off of 3 meds. I finally took the BP med as mentioned above for a short time..I could ONLY take it at night. It did help me get a bit of sleep.But sleep seems to be off & on for a while until we get a routine going again. Keep the room cool and dark and try to read yourself to sleep. TV will redirect your thinking, but it stimulates the Chems/Hormones in the brain that help keep you up & going. Try some Melatonin as this is the hormone that we produce for sleep.. Other wise, just hang on to some Patience and give this Time. Your Brain has to balance back as your Body has to heal too..This all takes it's own time and we all bounce back a bit different as far as time. Keep your self redirected as much as possible and do not watch the clock. Each Day you will start to feel a bit better..I wish you the best and just hang on to that surf board and ride this wave as you will be walking on the beach soon. Now that is a Promise!!
Bless

[Sosadinny]

Ty both so much!! I am ashamed to say I took an extra dose of the hydro last night. I couldn't deal w the stomach pain anymore and the highs and lows of the pills.

VICouragous do you think tapering off the subs would have been better? I jumped at 3mg to 40 mg of hydro actually yesterday went up? I am having a hard time stabalizing w the ups and downs.

Thoughts?

Ty all

[Defco]

I love the advice all the above posted. They were all there for me too. So I don't have any advice, just support!

One day at a time
Some days are leaps
Some days are crawls
But everyday is victory
Taking back your life.

I'll be thinking about you! Good luck!!

[demonhater]

One day at a time 
Some days are leaps 
Some days are crawls 
But everyday is victory 
Taking back your life. Wow what a short but such a POWERFUL
MESSAGE  

[atthebeach]

Checking on you.
Stay at the 40mgs for a bit to get stabilized dont go up and down that is worse.
Are you eating small bland meals?
Stay hydrated?
Moving around as much as possible?
Keep the faith.
Debbie

[Sosadinny]

TY all! That is so powerful.... Im on a crawl and yesterday took more than I should have. Couldnt sleep... stomach aches etc... hate these F'n pills. I really do. Im trying to eat but barely, which is probably worse since the pills are eating my stomach away.  One day at a time...
I will keep repeating

One day at a time  
Some days are leaps  
Some days are crawls  
But everyday is victory  

I want done by end of August... God please help me!!

[Sosadinny]

Spoke to my husband about just going ct off of the hydros since they are not helping me w the sub wd and actually irritating my stomach more. He tells me he doesn't think he can get off of work... So I ask my mom and she begs me not to because of my depression. I d

[Sosadinny]

Again got cut off... Was saying I don't think tapering off the hydros is going to work. .. I tried to explain this too her, that the ups and downs are killing me and I'm just prolonging the sickness. So she suggests going back to a lower dose of subs and doing a quick taper. I JUST WANT OFF ... the one thing about the subs was at least I didn't have the mood swings and pill popping all day... But either way it just ***** and no one wants to support my ct idea ... I can't do it w out their help since I have two kids.  

[atthebeach]

When is your mom coming? Do you have more subs?
Starting back on a lower dose is an option.
Then taper.
Or go a bit higher on the hydros and have someone hold the pills so you can't take extra. Then taper once  You stabilize.

[Sosadinny]

She's coming beginning of Aug. But will only be here two weeks. My Dr will rx me subs again if I want to go back to that route. If I did that I would start at no more than 2mg. Just feel like either way it still has a hold on me. My IBS is so bad right now I could barely stand from the pain.  I took 45 mg hydro today 5 mg less than yesterday...I'm all over the place w it just want to be done.

[vicki595]

Hi- I just want to mention that there's no such thing as a quick taper from Subs. It needs to be slow and steady for you to stay comfortable so you need to drop tiny amounts over a period of time.   It's up to you but I might give it a few more days to level out from the Sub withdrawal and stick with the hydro. Hydro is, I think, much easier to detox from than the long acting opiate in Sub.   Hang in there!

[lulu747]

Yuck sweetie you are in a tough position.  Your mom has to understand that your depression will probably be better WITHOUT the drugs (eventually once your brain heals)  Opiates do not treat depression- there are many other options for that.
You need a doctor on board here.
You need someone to support your choice.
I agree with Debbie but I am hesitant to give that advice because my gut tells me that you would be SO much better off if you did c/t and got that crap out of your body.
I know I did.  Tapering was pure torture for me because I just felt so crappy every day- nauseous and head achey and depressed.  After acute detox I felt amazing!!!
But that's me.  I don't know 100% if it will be the same for you- I can only share my experience.
I know that once you have decided YOU WANT OFF then that is the best thing to do.
See if you can talk to your mom again- maybe show her some posts on here and the research that backs it up okay?
Whatever you decide I am here to support...
Hugs
Lu