Please help, problems with suboxone after methadone???

[GreenButterfly906]

hi there, finally someone who has been on both, i just switched to subs from 10 years of methadone, 2 years clean in between, stupid? but it has been a week and my head hurts, leg spasm, digestive system, pelvis running to knees pain, also back pain, feels like every organ in pain still! while i dont feel like i am in withdrawal in other manners, why is this i have no relief? I do have back problems, etc. But it was not like this on done, or the two day withdrawal to get on subs, is it the drug, withdrawal. i think a bit of alcohol withdrawal too! But i am ready to give up suboxone at 12 mgs, i think, is this high enough to not feel the pain, as with methadone i could take codeine, this blocks it, my dr. lied to me! And how do i taper like you did, what did u do exactly, please help!

[nursegirl6572]

Are you using the mobile site?  Or the full site?

I'm not as familiar with the mobile site, but I know the full site lists all of the threads.  When you click and open the thread, all of the replies (including yours) will be under your first post.

Takes some getting used to.

[GreenButterfly906]

YES I HAVE TOLD THE TRUTH, I have weekly urine tests and I had to have a letter from my family dr. Naming exactly what drugs i was taking, which incl. codeine, trazadone, imovane, valium, to enable me to have methadone carries. I also have diagnoses from psychiatrist! In fact i got water with my methadone no juice and 6 carries to boot, so if that isn't a potential for a disaster, if he didn't trust that i don't misuse my medication, i would think that would be more harmful then subutex. And there is always a risk with both Done and Subs with respiratory depression when taken with benzo's, sleep meds, alcohol, etc.  I don't know why this is scattered but it says who i am replying to on top of each post! Sorry! I can't get another Dr., as this is Canada and only 2 clinics in my city! The other one is too busy, and i have been there before with all my meds the same!

[GreenButterfly906]

It was the methadone that craved alcohol and food, since subs i have no need or want for it! If my messages are all over the place that is because i am replying to different people, somehow this site lists them 1 by 1 at bottom, instead of right under the person i am replying to which would make far more sense. I am not on valium right now, I take as needed, and i have not needed 1 in a week to answer the other question! And to scatter it up a bit more, I have read posts that say spit it out so that is why i am wondering, as it is sublingual and wont do anything if swallowed, what is the point of swallowing all that crap left over! Thank you!

[nursegirl6572]

I agree with the above comments.

Benzos and buprenorphine taken concurrently is strongly contraindicated, even if they are legitimately prescribed.  Most sub docs have pretty strict rules about not accepting patients who are on benzos.  That could be causing some of the way you feel.

I agree that it's worth it to look into other pain management options, while you try to get the sub sorted out.  I would be willing to bet that your side effects are more likely related to an incorrect dose (too low, too high) rather than the naloxone.  The naloxone really is a non issue, taken sublingually, it's barely absorbed and does not do much of anything,  It was put in sub as more of a deterant than anything.  As weaver said, the bupe itself is what blocks other opiates, not the naloxone.

I would be concerned about your alcohol use.  It's good that you aren't craving alcohol now, but I would recommend addressing that, as you admit to abusing it in the past.  

You fervently declare you're not an addict, and you very well may not be, but there have been lots of red flags raised for me personally.  I think it would be a good idea to maybe do some soul searching on that, just to be sure.  If you are dealing with addiction (the alcohol abuse alone is a concern), then you're going to need to address your pain management from a slightly different angle, having a plan in place for handling any controlled substances.

Hope you figure it all out.  You never did answer too, what was your doc writing on the form you said you were concerned about?

Good luck to you!

[weaver71]

I've been off methadone for 13 months, I still don't have the motivation I did back in the day. I know you don't think of yourself as an addict, but dealing with my mental/emotional issues has helped with my motivation and even the physical pain. You seem really set on subs, is that due to having tried all other forms of pain relief. In Europe, where subs were invented, the butran patch is most common. The patch comes in 5, 10, and 20mcgs. It would take 50 of the strongest patches to equal 1mg of suboxone or subutex. The fog and lack of enthusiasm is common amongst long term sub users. My friend has been on 8mgs for over 5 yrs now, I can see how it has changed him. It is better than taking all the Oxys he was, but like all opiates, subs come with some side effects. I think you will have to decide if the benefits outweigh the disadvantages. You have CBT and all the other practices you mentioned, that is fantastic, now it's time to search for physical therapy or alternatives to drugs for pain relief. They simply stop working over time. What do you think is the source of your pain?

[EvolverU]

Hi, again! I just wanted to add that the last time I took Buprenorphine was to detox off of Methadone. It was actually Subutex & I experienced many of the same symptoms you & Weaver71 describe -- as did 8 of my 11 fellow opiate addicts that were with me in detox. (This is one of the reasons I'm asserting that it's not the Naloxone.) I've also taken courses of injectible Buprenorphine when it was being 'tested' in the late '90's, here & later Suboxone. The effects were the same. (Just my experience.)