tremors during sleep

[bobito]

I'm a 60 year old men, in excellent health, except for experiencing tremors during sleep that wake me up and have difficulty going  back to sleep.  As I start to fall sleep again, I feel these "rumbleling" (tremors) around my upper body.  I immediately wake up again.  These tremors last for about 10-15 seconds after I wake up.  The first time I experienced this condition was exactly two years ago.  It lasted for about four days and it simply went away.  Except for minor incidents (by "minor" I mean I experience the tremors for about two nights and go away) with no major disruptions in my sleep patters.  Last week, however, I experienced another episode which does not seem to be going away.  The first two nights I simply could not go back to sleep at all.  My body wanted to go back to sleep, but, as I mentioned above, everytime I fell sleep the tremors woke me up.  I'm on my  9th day and there seems to be no sign of letting up. I went to see my doctor on the fourth day--He prescribed Zolpidem, which I have been taken since.  Interestingly enough, even under the influence of the sleeping pill, the tremor wake me up, but they are short-lived since I go back to sleep almost immediately.  My doctor said to take the medicine for about two weeks and essencially placed me on a "wait-and-see" mode.  My concern at this point is "how long can I possobly survived on this medicine.  Does any body "out there" know anything about this condition?  As you can immagine, it is extremely debilitating.  I'm, for my age, a very atheletic man who is the right things, no vices and bikes to work every day--About
twenty miles a day.  Married with two grown children.  My job is very stress-free and very enjoyable.  Any ideas?  Thank you very much.

[bl218]

So, while I'm certainly not saying that we're all suffering from a panic disorder, I did recently run into this statement in a post about panic disorders:

"One line of current thought is that people who are prone to panic attacks are hypersensitive to small changes in their bodies’ biochemical milieu. An example of this is the way in which people respond to carbon dioxide (CO2) in their environment. Everyone’s brain monitors CO2 levels (subconsciously) to detect levels that are high enough to indicate the potential for suffocation.* Researchers have shown that in normal people, there must be a sizeable change in CO2 levels to set off this suffocation response; in people with panic disorder, however, even an insignificant rise in CO2 levels can trigger a full-blown panic attack"

So what if there were something else that caused hypersensitivity to CO2 changes?  This would account for the feeling that some of us have that we've stopped breathing or are breathing poorly.

[bl218]

BTW, I should have mentioned that that statement was from an article on the use of 5-HTP to treat panic/anxiety disorders. So I'm going to try some 5-HTP and see what happens.

[skboren]

I really like this line of thought. I am currently reading a book called "The Oxygen Advantage" that says most people are chronically overbreathing, and that results in poor oxygen delivery to tissues throughout the body, including the brain. It causes anxiety and a chronic fight-or-flight response in the body. It has to do with the body's ability to tolerate high levels of CO2. The higher levels of CO2 tolerated, the better for oxygen delivery. The book gives exercises to increase one's oxygen delivering capacity. I've not reached that chapter, yet, but I believe this may be important for at least some of us, because I do have a feeling of frequent brain hypoxia, like, I can't even blow on my kids' hot food without feeling like passing out. And it's not from being overweight or out of shape, I don't think, because I'm thin, and because I can do aerobic and other exercises and not have any feeling of near syncope or difficulty breathing. You can see if this is your problem by assessing your "BOLT score", which is done by holding your breath after a normal exhalation (so essentially not breathing when there's no air inside you) and counting how many seconds until your body reflexively makes muscle movements to try to get air, or until you are really feeling the need to breathe again. My BOLT score is 12. Average is 20. Healthy is 40. I'll do the exercises in the book and report if it helps the tremors.

[bl218]

Very interesting. My score was 22.  Yes, please report back and let us know whether the exercises help you.

[mikezzxxyy]

I have an interesting and somewhat surprising update.  As I stated in my last post I wanted to get back on an 'even keel' after my trip before trying anything to do with neurotransmitters.  As part of that I started taking a probiotic that I had leftover from a couple of years ago when I was focused on my GI.  

I stopped the licorice root which was the only thing I was taking.  Stopping the licorice resulted in the vibrations returning at a light to moderate level (my 'normal' at this point in time I believe).  However, once I started the probiotic the vibrations diminished to the point of being barely noticeable.  I believe I can correlate the vibration intensity with the amount of probiotic I take.  For example if I take the probitoic 2x per day my vibrations seem to be more noticeable than if I take probiotic 4 or 5x per day.  This wasn't part of an experiment - just life getting in the way of taking the probiotic as planned.

It's only been a week so there's still plenty of time for this "solution" to fizzle out but I wanted to share the info.  I'm using a 12 strain, 20 billion/capsule probiotic.

[ricepeg]

Just prior to onset I had been taking probiotics from multiple sources and comsuming new fermented foods. I then had intense lyme-like neuro symptoms for a few weeks, which resolved in the ongoing vibrations. One theory is that I had upset my gut biome, and released a CNS-loving pathogen via a leaky gut. I certainly got candida bad the same day as the neuro symptoms started (so, there must be some correlation).

I'm starting to introduce probiotics again. Why product or strains have been helpful so far?

[ricepeg]

*which

[bl218]

Hmmm.  The whole 4-5am thing is interesting too.  In various other Googling I've done, that seems to be the magic timeframe for people who have sleep problems.  Maybe that's just when we start to cycle out of deep sleep more frequently.  Everyone wakes up periodically during the night.  Maybe we just notice it more because of the vibrations which then tend to keep us from going back into deeper sleep.

-b

[Frankieitalian]

I am still on the Lunesta and at the least it gives me sleep. But the vibes start the moment I get up.  They have me wanting to transition to tamazapan.  Mayo has run many many tests. Bi answers. Going back to Nero and another nerve test. They say that's it.  If not they just treat symptoms.  I still can't get over its not heart.  It felt like it for so long. Definitely some kind of muscle spasms. Can't believe we all can't figure this out. Some seem to have controlled it but not one answer for all. But I keep reminding myself.. Its obviously not deadly. So I can deal. Hang in there brothers

[mikezzxxyy]

Wanted to check-in, provide an update and see how everyone else is doing.

About a week after my last post I started getting mild vibrations starting around 5AM or so and lasting until I got up.  Mildly annoying at worst.

Prior to starting the HCl I was having tremors - to me those are significantly different.  I define tremor as a rhythmic motion.  Those were significantly more intense and the more intense the tremor the worse I would feel for the 1st few hours of the day.  Longer if the tremors were intense.  A hangover is the best way I can describe it - the intensity of the "hangover" being directly correlated to the intensity of the tremors.

With the vibrations I always wake up feeling fine.  So to me while the shaking part may be somewhat similar they do seem to be quite different animals.

As far as I can tell nothing changed between sleep being peaceful and the start of the vibrations.  They started very slight - wasn't sure if I was having any type of motion or not - and got a bit more intense.  I can now clearly notice them but outside of being a bit annoying I'm not having any type of issues.

That being said, it's obviously not "normal" and I have to assume that my body still isn't 100% happy with something.

I still believe it to be nutritionally related.  I believe the addition of the HCl allowed for better absorption which eliminated the tremors.  Why the vibrations started is beyond me.  Maybe the addition of the HCl favors absorption of something at the expense of something else?  That's my best guess.

I'm paying attention to things but am not being strict in any respect.  To this point I cannot correlate the vibrations to anything diet or lifestyle related.  

I've continued with the HCl as described before and that's pretty much it.  I've experimented a bit with some of the other things I have here but without any real success.

As I write this I'm wondering if reducing the amount of HCl may make a difference.  Too much somehow creating a different imbalance or "over-correcting"?  I'll give it a try and post results.

[MartinAston]

Hello everyone. Does anyone have an update on their status? Since this is an old thread, your health evolution is valuable information two others who are experiencing sleep vibrations now. I would love to see you post health updates here, whether they are good or bad. The others reading this will also need to know whether you eventually got a firm diagnosis, and whether you ended up having an underlying health condition that was not apparent when you first posted here. Thank you so much! Personally, I have been experiencing sleep vibrations since 2020.

[bl218]

Great info as always Mike. Maybe I'll give the copper a try and see what happens.

One thing that continues to be different in my case is that I'm still clearly having some GI issues. Pretty much without fail, when I'm woken up during the night I feel like I'm having some kind of heartburn. I had a pretty bad bout of this a few days ago and I thought maybe I was overdoing it on the HCL supplements, but it also could have been something I ate. I had a sort of big lunch that day that contained breaded pork which may have disagreed with me for some reason. I remember a few years ago the first time I had a massive GI problem was just after I ate some store-bought fried chicken (which I love).  I was in pain for days after that...  So maybe it's a gluten thing although I've fairly careful (except for that one lunch recently) about staying away from gluten.

Thanks once again for sticking with this Mike even after you're feeling better.

-b

[Frankieitalian]

Well it's nice to find a thread with similar symptoms to mine,  and also disappointing that so few have had good results.  My tremors or spasms began 3 months ago.  Happens about 10 min after lying down.  Either to sleep or a nap.  Keeps me up all night. Tremors center in my chest and back.  Fingers tingle as well.  Very similar to all others here I have gone through every test around.  Cardio ok.  Endo ok.  Neurology ok.  Gastro ok.  Only thing they discovered was severe sleep apnea. Been going to mayo .  On propranolol and Lunesta for sleep.  That helps somewhat .  Tried herbal supplements as well.  I am surprised with all this time on this subject there are so few answers.

[bl218]

Welcome Frankie.  Yes, your symptoms sound all too familiar.  Sleep apnea also seems to be a thing for some of us.  What was your AHI?  Are you using CPAP now? I tried CPAP for a while (I have moderate sleep apnea, AHI=15), but it didn't work out for me. I'm going to see a dentist in a couple of weeks to be evaluated for a oral sleep apnea device. So does the propranolol/Lunesta combination stop the tremors or does it just let you get a bit more sleep, but you still wake up to the tremors?

[Frankieitalian]

My AHI was 85 so severe apnea.  I would say that the combination of proponolol and the Lunesta just get me through the night.  I wake-up and feel them. But at least I can sleep and function the next day.  Got back from Mayo today and got a script for Elavil which seemed to have helped the original poster of this thread. So trying that tonight.  It's a weird weird condition that seems to stump the best doctors.  I mean the good side is it isn't deadly,  the bad side is is it disrupts one life.  I hope to get to the bottom of what causes it but also can deal with it if I can control the symptoms. They scheduled me for x-rays and a back mri ans well as an EMR to test the muscles.  I think it is definitely muscular and a spasm of some sort. And agree with all of you that diet and stress aggravate it.  But it is definitely physical and not psychosomatic I'm origin.  Mine came out of the blue.  I suggest you try cpap again.  Both my neurologist and cardiologist feel that apnea may be the root cause of it. They know so little of the effect of apnea on the body.  Hang in there. Again it's somehow reassuring to know others have this. And remember as bad as it feels... It's not cancer... Its not parkinsons... So we can get through it.  

[bl218]

Frankie, do you have any of the other symptoms some of us have been experiencing: tinnitus, clicking sound in the ears, GI issues?

[Frankieitalian]

Had clicking sound in ears.. That went away.  And yes on gi issues. Rumbling etc.  Endoscopy found nothing